[WillLovesFish]

nunch, thanks for your input. I have a feeling you are right about them not getting enough to eat. I did notice they flipped themselves over a lot towards the end. But at the beginning they were just fine and never fell over. I do keep even the back glass so clean probably because I don't have it painted black like you said so you can't see all the alge on it. Since the Mex. Tubos fall over easy do you have other recommendations for snails, how are the Astrea's, pros and cons...?

I will get my water param. and post them up.