[kgh9555]

As a new member of reef builders, I am here for help and information. This entire project started when my older son won a gold fish at an elementary school fair when he was 9 years old. That gold fish lived for 8 years and finally died. As I was cleaning out the old tank, my 2 boys started talking about a salt water tank. I thought to myself, yea right, they won’t even take out the dog and who is the one cleaning the old tank. Well as most of us know, we got into this hobby some how. So we went on line and learned about marine tanks, fish, live rock and all that goes with this hobby.

We went to the store and finally purchase a 45 gallon set up. We took our time setting it up and followed everyone’s advice. Well, this has been a great time for me and my boys (it has been hard on them with a divorce). I would come home and find my youngest, 11 years old, sitting in front just watching the fish. Of course we had a few fish die, but that goes with the hobby. So now we have decided to move up to a bigger tank.

I found a 150 gallon tank 72'x18"x24", for sale in the paper (new) and a stand on eBay. It is an overflow tank with the connections in the back corners. I purchase a sump kit with the bio balls, pump and heater. We filled the tank and mixed the salt. We ran the tank for about 2 weeks with nothing in it. We have purchased about 45 lbs of live rock and set in the bear bottom of the tank (large pieces). I also purchase a 72" compact light fixture with a total of 384 watts. I also plan to add another 196 watts for a total of 580, which believe should cover what we need.

Here is my question. How to arrange the live rock? I have heard of using PVC, stacking it to fit like a puzzle leaving areas for caves and other places for the fish to hide. I like the PVC stand for the rock but for the life of me cannot figure out how it works. I also saw a tank where the discharge lines are 1/2" pvc pipes running down the side of the overflow with outlets in it so the water can be directed.

Is there anyone who can provide pictures or a link so I can see how to use the PVC with the rock? Should I start using smaller rock for a base? I understand there is a lot of work and time which has to go into this and so do my boys. I am just trying to does it right the first time and all these web sites are starting to get to me. I would like to cover the overflows as much rock as possible on each side. In the middle use some shelf rock for some corals and maybe a clam or 2 since they will need to be as close to the light as possible.

[aquasalt]

Hey Kenneth, welcome to RB. Where in Florida are you? I'm in St. Pete and am aslo a newcomer to the hobby (been at it for about two months now).

I'm not sure about the pvc, so I will defer to others on that issue. But it seems to me that if you are stocking live rock you would want to refrain from using PVC,--it takes away from the natural beauty that we as hobbyists are trying to recreate in our tanks. Go with Live Rock only, that's my opinion. Also some have said to stay away from bio balls as they are nitrate factories in the long run. Instead you can use live rock there also. I still have to switch over myself! Do you have any substrate? Live sand that is?

Jim

[kgh9555]

Thanks for the reply Jim,

I am in the Northwest Palm Beach County area of Florida. I never heard of the issue with Bio Balls. What does one have to do to convert to live instead of bio balls?

I guess I am going have look into the PVC issue vs. stacking the live rock. I was reading, last night, about using dead rock under the Live Rock which helps create a foundation. I have to stay within a budget and move slowly with this large tank.

[ckwatson]

All you need to do is take out the bio balls and put in live rock rubble where the bio balls where. Also with a tank that large I would try and get some more live rock, if you go with a base of "dead" (rock that was a live at some time) it will come back to life over time and it will save some money but it will take a little longer be for you can stock the tank.

[chevpa1]

Hi kenneth, this is my first posting, so bare with me. I only have a small tank, I have had it for about 2years, when I started our I did use some "dead" rock for my base, after a while it does get inhabitants and it is a whole lot cheaper than purchasing live rock just to be covered up with substrate. Are you keeping your old tank or converting it over into your new one? Using what was in your smaller tank would also be beneficial to the start up of your larger tank. I have a 24 gallon right now and will be starting up a 90, I just need to research the lighting a bit more first. I am going to use my smaller tank for a hospital/quarintine tank. I wish you luck, sounds like you have researched this quite a bit. I think arranging the live rock is the best part when starting up a new tank.

[CyberJester]

I have not used the PVC to connect my rock, my rock is just stacked and seems to do ok. But from what I have read for the PVC connections you just figure out how you want the rock to look and drill holes in both rocks at the joining location and insert the PVC. I have also heard of using cable ties in this capacity.

[dinor2]

Kudos to you first of all for finding a great, education, fun hobby to enjoy with your sons, I think that is AWESOME! And I'm sure you all will enjoy learning about reefs together!

I'm attatching a picture of my set up, mind you it's my first set up but thought it'd just be nice to see a visual of what the 'dead rock' as a base looks like. Also, my tank is not done yet, it still needs about 45lbs of lr in it which I plan to avoid a stacked look by (warning, contradiction coming!) stacking my last batch to cascade up and towards the back of my tank, leaving the sides and front very open for fish and other inverts, and also keeping in mind I'd like to leave one or two cave areas for fish to hide. (I already have three cave areas so far).

I do wish I had just bought all my lr at once though! But since I wasn't sure of the dealer (Walt Smith on ebay, EXCELLENT lr salesman! Excellent lr!) I only ordered a small amount...

Anyways, enough of my jabbering, here's what my dt looks like now. It's been cycling for almost 7 weeks.




Good luck with your reef!
Dana

[kgh9555]

Wow, what a response of some great information. Thank you all so much. I like the dead rock idea which is much less expensive. I just came across a rock called BIRDSNEST on ebay, AquaticsPro is the seller. I have tried looking for infromation on this rock and can seem to find much at all.

Thank you all again. I am open to any more suggestions.

[kgh9555]

Wow, what a response with some great information. Thank you all so much. I like the dead rock idea which is much less expensive. I just came across a rock called BIRDSNEST on ebay, AquaticsPro is the seller. I have tried looking for infromation on this rock and cannot get too much on it, any thoughts?

Thank you all again. I am open to any more suggestions.

[CyberJester]

Is there an echo in here.

[thelastmucci]

Hey Ken welcome to RB. I'm glad your teaching your boys about responsibility and the life cycle that is of course the very basis of this hobby. Now on to your questions. As cyberJester said all you have to do with the PVC is drill both rocks and insert PvC. Personally I don't like the idea of drilling rock....too much hassle. You could use ties too but again I believe that would require drilling. What I plan on doing is Epoxying my rocks together when I get my tank. Obviously I'll start with a big base and work my way up. Granted I'll never be able to change it but honestly I don't like messing with LR once it's in place...you might have corals or anemones on it that have found a home. Plus your disturbing everything's territory.
I would also like to say that I love the idea of "dead rock" as a base. Obviously if you can afford it a complete LR base would be better but there's nothing wrong with seeding dead rock. Just more time of course and we all know how impatient we are in this hobby.
The bio balls are bad because they are a nitrate factory. If left unwashed then they build up nitrate. Which obviously can be a problem. Your best bet is like everyone said and that is to use LR Rubble from a LFS or you can buy it online.
I'm not familiar with all types of LR and I haven't heard of the one you want to purchase. The thing you want to remember about LR is that it should be pourous...the more so the better. Lots of people get there LR on Ebay from a dealer who I believe is called mrmarine...just type in Live Rock in the search engine and he should come up. Anyway I hope this all helps and again welcome.

[dhboyd1]

There are also ways to make your own dead rock using white cement, aragonite, coraline sand and shell fragments. It's pretty cheap but needs a lengthy curing time. As for LR, do some reasearch and see what might be the lightest most porous rock. Each part of the ocean produces a different type of rock. One company I know offers Fiji Cultured Live Rock that is basically the same process above that has been sitting in the ocean for awhile. My 55 gal tank started with 35 lbs of dead rock, 55 lbs of live rock, 50 lbs live sand(don't forget the live sand). My dead rock (it alive now) has feather dusters, coraline algae and is home to my crabs.

[kgh9555]

Again, thank you all for your information. Funny thing about the bio balls, we have cycling the tank for about 3 weeks now with about 50 lbs of large LR. There is no trace of ammonia but the nitrates are high, according the test I did when I got home today. The LR rock in the sump sounds like a good idea. We have not placed anything else in the tank as of yet, just the saltwater mix and live rock. We did use tap water to fill and mix the tank, I know that is bad, but based on the budget we have the time to cycle it longer. I do have a water softener on the entire house which may or may not help, but it worked fine with our 45 gallon tank.

I think it maybe best to lay out all my live rock when I get it all and play the puzzle game. I really want to cover the over follows as much as possible to give the tank the most natural look I can. However, I may not be able to have everything.

I will try the LR in the sump and remove the bioballs this weekend. Now, I have to figure on how much LR rubble I will need. Another weekend project.

Thanks again and keep them coming.

[dhboyd1]

Get a phosphate/silica filter sock without carbon. It will help remove those things from tap water. They cost about 10 bucks and last from 4-6 weeks. Otherwise get used to brown algae because your tank will always have an overabundance of nutrients. Make sure when placing the rock your have plenty of flat surfaces to put stuff on. The first mistake I made was building walls and no tables. It's really hard to put corals on walls because they keep falling off. I still haven't seen that you are putting live sand in your tank but hope you have considered it unless you are doing a FOWLR tank. If you are doing a reef tank then you don't have enough bio filter medium in the tank. The rule of thumb is 1.25-1.5 lbs of live rock for every gallon. The sand adds to that and gives even more places for good bacteria to grow.

[kgh9555]

Thanks for the great information. I do plan on live sand or live crushed coal. However, I was told to wait until I got all my rock becasue the rock should rest on the bear bottom. I did have a sock on the tap water, I forgot to include that in my write up. I just need to take my time and go slow. I figured on needing more LR so I am getting it a little at a time and letting the tank run with what I have.

Thanks again.

[michelle's ocean fantasy]

Nice to see you here Kenneth. And that picture is nice, Dana!
I have seen SO MANY sellers on ebay with LR. BUT- have also come across several sites selling really cool - somewhat different- rock. I am really leaning towards the marshall island rock- and might mix in some hawaiian,too-I love the way it looks. Good luck to you and your boys! I am excited for you

[kgh9555]

I have been looking at other sites as well but have never seen the rock you are talking about. DO you have the site information. By the way, What picture are you talking about? I don;t have one on here but thanks anyway.

[michelle's ocean fantasy]

Hi again. I was looking at the picture above from Dana, showing you the rock formation. I like visiting AQUARIUMS, FIJI LIVE ROCK, REEF SYSTEMS, POND KITS AND MORE they have nice rock, and all kinds of stuff. Also saltwaterfish.com.

[michelle's ocean fantasy]

hmmm. i typed in oceanproaquatics.com and it relisted my website with that title. Anyway- think you might like it. Again- the hawaiian and marshall islands are my favorite so far, along with the fiji

[michelle's ocean fantasy]

Kenneth: might want to check out: Welcome to International Marine Fish - Premium Live Rock - FREE SHIPPING until sunday- BIG sale on live rock

[aupilot]

A place where I highly recommend and have purchased from is WholesaleAquaticSupplies They have both ads on ebay as well as a website. I can tell you that I have bought from several people on ebay and the quality of the rock just cant beat theirs.

[kgh9555]

Hi all,

It has been a while. Trying to get back into the swing of things. New question, we are at the beach in Sanidbel and found some nice shells, a rock and spong. Is it possible to place the sponge in the tank? I know it will be alive but in may give a nice apperance and attract some good urchin's.

Thanks

Ken

[aupilot]

Originally Posted by kgh9555

Hi all,

It has been a while. Trying to get back into the swing of things. New question, we are at the beach in Sanidbel and found some nice shells, a rock and spong. Is it possible to place the sponge in the tank? I know it will be alive but in may give a nice apperance and attract some good urchin's.

Thanks

Ken

Ken, the sponge dies upon contact with air, so I wouldnt put it in the tank. It may cause your ammonia levels to go up. Also, in terms of the birdsnest, when I purchased from Wholesale Aquatic Supplies I saw that they had Birdsnest as well. You may want to email them.. I know they were very helpful when I purchase my fiji live rock.

[admann]

Originally Posted by michelle's ocean fantasy

Hi again. I was looking at the picture above from Dana, showing you the rock formation. I like visiting AQUARIUMS, FIJI LIVE ROCK, REEF SYSTEMS, POND KITS AND MORE they have nice rock, and all kinds of stuff. Also saltwaterfish.com.

Great ste...lots of differ rock types

[kgh9555]

I am getting confused about bios balls vs. live rock. I have a 150 gallon tank, cycling is complete. I have about 125 lbs of live rock and 2" of live sand. We place 1 firefish, 1 damsel, 1 pink wrasse and 1 sweet lip. My son also got a chocolate chip star fish, which is going back for I hear they are too aggressive.

I am also purchasing an RO/DI water filter system and will make my own salt water for changes.

I am concerned about the bioballs. I have been told to keep them clean and they will fine. I have heard that they cause more issues than help and to replace them with live rock. What type of live rock (big or small). I am running a Mag 950 gph pump, is that enough? I am also installing 2 power heads (koralia 850 ghp). We want to be able to place corals, clams and ... in the tank but I really need to know about the filtration system. I also don’t know what type of skimmer to place in the sump. I have an air pump so I can use that type of skimmer if necessary but what size. If I get rate for a 150 gallon tank, it is huge for the sump.

If anyone has information on this and PICTURES on a sump using live rock instead of bioballs, I would really appreciate seeing it.

Thanks
Ken