[Mattfish]

Hi,

We're definitely newbies and have already gotten some good advice. With thousands of choices out there (and millions of permutations), I recognize there are probably that many opinions, but.... I'd like to propose what I'm thinking of getting and ask for comments, improvements, thoughts, etc - please!

I should probably add that I typically don't buy toilet paper without a spreadsheet and research, so it's easy for me to overthink this. But I went to a local place in Campbell, CA yesterday where they focus on fish - 80% saltwater/reef, and spoke with the owner for a while - Dolphin Pet Village. He gave me what seems like good advice, and I'm convinced it'll be a good place to get livestock from. Some of the equipment, I might buy from web sources where it'll save significant money. There's also a great place in Mountain View, CA called Seascapes which also looks to be a great place to buy livestock.

We're creating a reef environment but will probably look to have a smightly larger number of fish along with perhaps a few less corals or inverts - color is good, but motion is nice. For us and our 20-month old son.... So perhaps this is a modified reef, or a "busy reef"....

Set up: The AGA 125 gallon tank came yesterday - overflow, with pine/oak stand (28" tall). The tank is huge, but I'm consoling myself with "for reefs, the bigger the better". Still... it looks huge! No canopy, but of course have the glass tops.

What I'm thinking about getting (and any concerns or specifics in parens):

Sump: All Glass MegaFlow Mod. 4 (I see where folks recommend replacing the bio balls with live rock - how soon?)

Protein Skimmer: Red Sea Berlin XL (so many choices, but seems like a good one?)

Pump: MagDrive 950 (need something quiet, yet big enough and reliable to create good flow)

Powerheads: no choices yet, need recommendations for good flow for corals and inverts

Heater: Hydor's - 2 of them, presumably in the sump (I saw another thread discussing the idea of maybe putting one in the tank, in case of pump failure...?)

Chiller: not yet, but figuring we'll need one soon - we live in Cupertino, CA (Northern Cal), and the summer's get warm, although the nights cool off... I saw that there are inline and other kinds. Haven't started researching this yet.

Lights: with a 72" tank, I can laready see the lights will be $1,000 to $1,300. I'm already sold on MH, with actinics and moon LED's. So many choices/sources. I've read some of the other threads. I don't want to hang them (inconvenient), so a sit-on-the-tank method is preferred.

Live Rock: figuring on 100-125 pounds uncured. Since I'll have to cycle the new tank, seems like it's worth it instead of cured?

Live sand: Carib-Sea aragonite. Other options?


What am I forgetting, overlooking, ignorant of? (OK, besides having no experience, but reading every book and magazine I can find, reading everything on this forum, and asking the same questions over and over!)

Thanks very much for your help and thoughts!!!

[glampka]

Welcome to RB!! Glad to see you're taking the time to do the research. Looks like you're well on your way to setting up your system.
As far as the bioballs go - don't even put them in the system. Put the LR rubble in from the very beginning. As far as the pump goes, you'll want to determine the head height that you'll be pumping the water. Also determine how many 90 degree turns you'll have in the return line. Every bend adds a foot to the head. Pick your pump once you know that since the gallons pumped decreases as you increase the head.
Power heads - You simply can't beat the MaxiJets for dependability. You'll want the 1200. Another good ph is the Hydor Koralia. They can really move some water.
Possibly overlooked refractometer or hydrometer for determining your salinity, thermometer, test kits.
Getting uncured rock can be a pain - the smell isn't going to be pretty so be prepared. Personally, I prefer cured. Far less work & usually most unwanted hitchhikers are gone. There will still be some die-off but not to the extent of the uncured material.
Hope that helps & Good Luck!

[Mattfish]

Hi Glampka,

Thanks for the response. I've been reading several of yours across many threads.

I'll plan on getting the LR rubble for the sump - but I'm wondering if this should make me reconsider the sump and get something different? I'm sure the local shop can tell me how much LR rubble to put in the sump to replace the bio balls.

Also wondering, if I need any other type of filtration? Nothing I've read seems to make it necessary, but if it'll make the system better, why not...

Regarding the pump, since I can't quite figure it out, perhaps I'll just get a larger one? Everything I'm reading says more circulation and tank turnover is better anyway for the corals and inverts. I'm sure there's an upper limit to that, but it was suggested to me that I put valves on the tank returns from the sump to balance the output, so I can always control it that way. The tank has a double overflow, so balancing may be necessary.

I'll check out the powerheads - it seems like several may be needed to ensure a good circulation and no dead spots.

I've heard the smell from uncured rock may be a bit "strong" but we grew up at the shore anyway, so that shouldn't be too bad - and we've got time to cycle the tank - I'd rather spend the cycle time than introduce anything too soon anyway. Plus I can demonstrate my patience level and see if my wife can match it

What about calcium reactors? UV Light cleaners? Ozonizers? Are any of these needed? If so what for? And are they something I introduce if I see specific problems/issues?

Thanks again! The info is really appreciated!

BTW, another quote I've heard is that "we get the children we deserve". Seems to go along with yours....

[pogodzib]

For a new setup, I always like to keep it simple and skip the "toys" like UV, ozone, calcium reactors, chillers. Work your way up to those items as you get the money and feel that it is the right time for it on your tank. A chiller is one thing that you might need fairly quickly depending on if you can keep your tank temp down. You won't know that answer though until after your tank is setup and running. I would reconsider your choice on the skimmer and possibly the heaters. Some good skimmers to check into (based on both quality and price) are Euro-reef and ASM. Most people like titanium heaters with separate temp controllers. For live sand, "sugar-sized" sand works best w/ aragonite sand being my prefered choice.

Regarding your second post, all you need for filtration is your skimmer and live rock. Trying to incorporate bioballs or some other type of mechanical filtration can actually make your water quality worse. These other types of filters are great at breaking down waste into nitrates, but they do not convert nitrates into nitrogen gas. Since they break down the waste so quickly, your live rock and sand bed aren't able to convert the nitrate into nitrogen gas quick enough. Your skimmer pulls gunk out of your system instead of breaking it down.

Regarding flow, with having sand for a substrate, you won't be able to create enough flow that it will harm your fish or corals without your whole sand bed being blown around. There are alot of reefers out there with bare bottom tanks that save 50x-80x turnover rate in their tanks. In a 125 gallon tank, that would mean 6,250-10,000gph. Most of that is through in-tank pumps or closed loops, not going directly through your sump though since your overflows wouldn't be able to handle that kind of flow.

[glampka]

Most of your filtration will come from 2 things - live rock/sand & protein skimmer. Haviing a sump gives you the option of adding a filter sock to remove larger particles, carbon & phosphate sponges, etc.. Also if you set up a refugium in the sump you now have some place to remove nitrates.
All those things you mention are nice to have & have their place depending on what you are trying to keep. Are they really needed - probably not. Ozonizers will make your skimmer more efficient by oxidizing the stuff in the water. UV sterilizers kill off bacteria & other water borne things but they don't discriminate - they kill everything that goes past them - like good & bad bacteria. CA reactors IMO are needed only if you have something that will be sucking up the CA like clams & tons of hard corals.
You'll definitely need a few ph. Might want to consider a wavemaker or controller to alternate the flow on them.
Personally, I like the minimalist approach - I've been running my tank for over 5 years with just LR/LS & protein skimmer for filtration. Less to worry about. If you couple that with regular water changes you should be able to have a successful tank. But what works for one doesn't always work for others.

[Mattfish]

OK, thanks for the posts below! So combining what I've learned here:

1. Keeping it simple and introducing new "stuff" like ozonizers, etc can happen if/when the need arises - not in the beginning, and as a proactive thing, in a sense, to either new livestock in tank, i.e. clams, etc, or as a reaction to situations, i.e. bacterial issues, etc. Possibly a chiller in short order if I can't keep the temp "down" to where it needs to be.

2. Sump should have LR rubble, and this, the bulk of the living rock in the tank, and the protein skimmer are the primary means of filtration. The water changes will help with this.

3. I should reconsider my protein skimmer (ASM & Euroreef), and the powerheads, as mentioned below. The main pump really only lifts the water from the sump to the main tank and drives the overall flow to/from the sump/skimmer/LR rubble filtration, so a decent rate is required, but the powerheads will create the kind of motion and in-tank flow that the inverts and corals reallly need to thrive.

4. The flow rates are very helpful - it's this kind of "math" that I like to understand. And I like the idea of keeping it simple - particularly in the beginning as I learn. Even adding corals and inverts will be a slow process for us - even adding fish will be a step by step.

5. I should look towards titanium heaters - any brands you can recommend?

BTW, Got a list of test kits. Toying with the idea of getting probes, particularly ones which will connect to my PC for automated tracking.... probably not for the start, but maybe shortly down the line - it would seem to be good to haver all the "data" possible. But I do think that like learning multiplication tables in school, I should learn how to use the test kits and do some monitoring that way for a while, to learn the ins and outs of monitoring.

What have I missed? Still so much to learn, and I hope to order the rest of the equipment later this week. My wife is away on a trip for another 2 weeks, and we want to deisgn the tank together, so my job is to have all the "stuff" here waiting when she's back. She's more artistic, I'm more technical.....

Thanks again!

[Mattfish]

Almost forgot - which pumps and powerheads are quiet and reliable? Quiet is good - we have a blue and gold macaw for noise quality (or lack thereof) and would like to have as quiet a set up as possible.

I saw Glampka's recommendation on the maxiJets and Hydor Koralia PH's. Are they reasonably quiet, or since they're in-tank, no real noise to speak of?

Thanks.

[glampka]

I have MJ's running in my 30 & as a return pump on my 12 gal Aquapod. Can't hear a thing from them. PH for the most part are quiet. Some you might get some chatter from when they start up if you have them on a wavemaker.

[pogodzib]

It looks like you have everything under control. For heaters, the ANALOG won brothers titanium are the best, and the ebo jaeger heaters are probably the best glass heater. Two small heaters is much better than one large heater. For powerheads, the maxijet 1200 is the most reliable powerhead, excluding the Tunzes ($$$$). Many people use Seio and Tunze powerheads because of their flow capacities. Tunzes are costly, but they are the best. Seios put out a lot of low but so people have restart issues with them. I don't know much about the Hydor Koralia's. Any in-tank pump is usually quiet, it's the external pumps that get noisy. Some in-tank pumps (most notably Mags) increase your tank's temp.

One other thing, if your tank's temp does start rising above where you'd like it, blowing some fans on the water surface and inside of your canopy will help to lower the temp. I also lower my MH cycle to 5-6 hrs during the summer months instead of the 8+ hrs that most people recommend. There are some people (with increasing #'s) out there that only run their MH for 4 hrs per day year round.

[Mattfish]

Now that I'm clued in to powerheads, and also the need for wavemakers, this makes sense. And of course leads to yet more questions:

• For my 125 g tank with the two overflows (which in an AGA tank are placed pretty close to the ends of the tanks, therefore making me think about dead zones they might create), how can I start to deduce how many powerheads and of what size to start with?
• I saw the recommendation for MaxiJets, Tunzes (apparently the higher cost but more highly recommended alternative), and Seio (haven't even started comparing these), what about wavemaker recommendations? Some less expensive simple plug in strips with group timing, or higher quality/more customizable ones?
• What sort of timing do you start working with, or is this a trial and error type of thing? I suppose that's probably it, but maybe there's more math to this.... (I like math - you know when you get the right answer, but I'm guessing this is more like biology where you don't know if three molecules will combine to make an -ine, an -ene, or an -ane... you can guess this drove me crazy in high school - long, long ago - and tha I liked math, chemistry and physics where you had formulas and life was predictable...)
• What else about this am I forgetting to consider?

Thanks!