[DoctorHypnosis]

I added a Powder Blue Tang to my tank on May 15 and all was well until a week later when I noticed white spots on her. I did a lot of reading only to discover she had Ich. Doing more research I opted to treat the tank with Sano and Ruby Reef Kick-Ich as I did not have a QT setup and was afraid it would take to long for a new one to cycle...

The Sano showed improvements within 24 hours, but within a week, the rest of my fish had the white worms (2 clowns, 1 coral beauty, 1 sailfin tang and the 1 Powder blue tang). I have run the full cycle of Kick-Ich and while there appeared to be days when it was working and things began clearing up, days later the infestation was back with a vengeance. I lost the Powder Blue on June 5 and this morning I lost the male clown...

I have tried to catch the survivors for a fresh water dip, but that has proven near impossible. The cleaner shrimp appear to be doing all they can, but beyond waiting to see what is next, I am at a loss and fairly depressed over the entire thing... Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have read a ton of threads on Ick and there are so many different recommendations I just don't know where to go from here, except to let nature do what it needs to do.

[pogodzib]

There are only two ways that are guaranteed to get rid of ich. One is treating with copper and the other is treating using the hyposalinity method. Both ways need to be done in a q-tank. Most reef-safe additives are either not truely reef safe, use chemicals that don't fully work at riddign ich, or help boost a fish's immune system, which may or may not help, but it won't get ich out of your tank.

Do a search here for ich treatment, copper, or hyposalinity and you should find some good posts. Additionally, take a look in the illness area of the RB Library.

[DoctorHypnosis]

Thanks for the feedback. I purchased a Nanocube this evening and set her up as a hospital tank and got the fish moved after a brief freshwater bath. They seem to be adjusting OK so far. The next 24 hours should determine if they can pull through.

Thanks for the support and I will keep everyone informed of the progress!

On another note, my lettuce Sea Slug laid a Beautiful spiral egg ring today on the back of my main tank... nature is truly amazing!

[jimw369]

Its the coolest stuff Ive ever seen doctor. Thats what keeps me wanting a tank up and running. I am always amazed at this stuff.

Even the ich. Awesome how they get it and awesome how to get rid of it. Crazy huh?

[REEFMASTER]

There is also another way, Do nothing. That is right, nothing. other than turn up your heater on your tank. Ich runs in a cycle, basically your confusing the eggs into thinking that its time to look for a host, when your just actually speeding up the process. AND AS YOU KNOW HEAT KILLS, SO MONITOR YOUR TANK. Now contrary to my screen name, I am NOT a master. But I have been reading this in other forums that I am with. the aforementioned are True guaranteed ways of rid your system of ICH(which is always present in your tank, just waiting for the right moment to strike). But if your like me, at the present no room for an extra tank(or the other half says no) Then you try to find the next best methods.
Just be sure your careful at what you put in your tank! A lot of things say they're REEF SAFE but in actuality there not.
HAPPY REEFING

[Hosser]

Im guessing her but , as big a problem as Ich is it seems to be a bit like the common cold, no one fully understands it and there isnt a way to stop it for good. Your tank will get it if you dont quarantine, it can live for several weks without a host and you may not see that a fish has it.
This article is a good read about Ich
The Marine Ich Epidemic « Joe Jaworski’s Weblog

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by hosser

Im guessing her but , as big a problem as Ich is it seems to be a bit like the common cold, no one fully understands it and there isnt a way to stop it for good. Your tank will get it if you dont quarantine, it can live for several weks without a host and you may not see that a fish has it.
This article is a good read about Ich
The Marine Ich Epidemic « Joe Jaworski’s Weblog

Its understood...Please read Brians earlier post. The only reason we hear all this nonsense is because people need to sell stuff off the shelves.

Thank you Pogodzib (Brian) for those links a year ago. I followed them to the T and have had no probs with ich. I will only add a species of fish if they can survive a hyposalinity treatment.

[Hosser]

So your telling me that of all the things said from everyone on here that worked for them is the way to go? Please Jim, you are a bright individual but you have seen that some things work for some people and other things dont. In this thread alone one person mentions that it is ALWAYS in your tank, yet other far more experienced aquarists will say that it it ISNT always present. Some say its due to stress while others say stress isnt at all the cause. It isnt fully understood or else there wouldnt be the problem still. Uneducated people continue to put infested livestock in their tanks before QTing, its a common mistake and one that most make. I myself havent had it, and take the precautions not to. But no one fully understands ANYTHING that comes from the ocean realm, if we did we would have gills. Good Luck with the Ich, belive who or whatever you want. The best policy is to QT everything first and treat as needed. Copper and hypsolinity are proven methods that I myslef have never had to try but they seem to be good remdies. Getting it out of your tank isnt as easy as raising the temp, it needs to be emptied of fish and left that way for 6 weeks or more.

[Hosser]

Let me re-iterate why this upsets me a bit... to tell a newcomer, much like myself that something like Ich is fully understood is not only irresponsible, but also not helpful to their maturity in the hobby. What would be more helpful is giving them options or articles on the subject so they can do research on it to prevent it the next time. Things WILL happen in a tank as Jim has mentioned numerous times "reefing isnt always fun" and this is where newcomers need advice and resources for research. Didnt mean to sound like I was jumping down throats, I meant well.

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by hosser

So your telling me that of all the things said from everyone on here that worked for them is the way to go? Please Jim, you are a bright individual but you have seen that some things work for some people and other things dont. In this thread alone one person mentions that it is ALWAYS in your tank, yet other far more experienced aquarists will say that it it ISNT always present. Some say its due to stress while others say stress isnt at all the cause. It isnt fully understood or else there wouldnt be the problem still. Uneducated people continue to put infested livestock in their tanks before QTing, its a common mistake and one that most make. I myself havent had it, and take the precautions not to. But no one fully understands ANYTHING that comes from the ocean realm, if we did we would have gills. Good Luck with the Ich, belive who or whatever you want. The best policy is to QT everything first and treat as needed. Copper and hypsolinity are proven methods that I myslef have never had to try but they seem to be good remdies. Getting it out of your tank isnt as easy as raising the temp, it needs to be emptied of fish and left that way for 6 weeks or more.

Hyposalinity and Cu treatments are not something you "never had to try"(your quote)If you wait till you have to treat its much more difficult. These are things you just do when preparing a fish for your tank. This is a situation where an ounce of prevention can be worth 10 pounds of cure.

So whats the problem? Looks like we agree on the best policy for ich treatments. Curious why this advice wasnt given first or just agreeing with Pogodzib to add credibility to his answer.

[pogodzib]

I don't want to bring up a 3 day old thread, but feel that a couple items in this thread should be addressed for everyone that reads it in the future.

I do not feel that ich "is always present in your tank, just waiting for the right moment to strike" If you quarantine all fish correctly, ich can be kept out of a tank.

Secondly, many tests have been done to see what treatment methods kill ich and what stages of the life cycle kills it. Copper and hyposalinity are by far the easiest and most cost effective treatments proven to work every time if done correctly. There are a few other treatment options, but they either require more than one quarantine tank or chemicals that aren't commonly available.

There are many, many treatments that contain other chemicals, foods, temp adjustments, etc... that are on the market and claim to be reef safe. Some of these may help to reduce the severity of the ich while the ich goes through its cycle. Sometimes the ich won't return after one of two more cycles and other times it will be much worse or your fish will die. It is more a matter on how strong the fish's immune system is and if it can fight off the disease. Either way, these treatment methods will not eradicate ich from your system. The only way to by sure that you will kill of ich is using the methods described in the paragraph above.

Yes, ich is one of the diseases (actually parasites), that not much research has been done up until the past dozen years. Before then, it was thought that freshwater ich and marine ich were the same parasite, when in fact it isn't. However, within the past dozen years, alot of studies have been done on it since it has become so common within the aquarium industry. Unfortunately, there is still alot of misconceptions floating around about ich. To keep things simple for people that aren't aware of the treament options and preventing ich- quarantine all new livestock, copper and hyposalinity treatments are the only two methods proven to work everytime that most people would recommend for the common reef keeper, and there is no reef safe treatment for ich that is guaranteed to work every time and will rid your tank permanently of the ich parasite.

[jimw369]

You are AMAZING Brian!

Might wanna save that post you wrote so you can just paste it next time.

You have the patience of a saint!

[DoctorHypnosis]

Thank you all for your posts and for the link to a great article!

So where I am now with the Ich situation is that I have setup a 10 gallon biocube as a permanent hospital/quarantine tanks. I removed the charcoal from the filter and I have been treating the water with a copper medication for marine ich. I also add a separate air pump with a long air stone to oxygenate the water more as the fish were having trouble breathing and I read a great article on setting up tanks for Ich talking about adding a secondary air source. Of course I have no substrate on the bottom and no live rock - I purchased some fake plastic wall rock for the fish to hide in and behind, but nothing live other than the fish and the live seawater from my LFS. I am also making 1/4 water changes every 3 days with new live water from the LFS while monitoring my levels.

The first day of moving the fish, I lost the coral beauty and then the Sailfin Tang died that night. They were both very bad off and I wasn't surprised when they did not make it. The one survivor has been my female clown - she held on and as of this morning has almost no remaining visible Ich sites on her body. She is swimming around again and is eating very well. So I have high hopes for her.

The plan is to keep her in the hospital tank for another 7 weeks and purchase no other fish throughout that time. Then I will reintroduce her to the main tank and see how she does. From all that I have read, the Ich should be cycled out of the main tank by that point. If any signs show again, I will be set up with the hospital tank and can make the move to isolate her immediately - something I did not have this last time.

I lost a lot of fish and that was really sad and I learned a ton in the process and have a nice working hospital tank. Every fish from now on that I purchase into the future will spend at least 2 glorious weeks in the hospital tank before they are introduced to the main tank.

Thanks again for all of your support!

[pogodzib]

Sorry to hear about your losses. At least next time you'll be prepared and should be able to react more quickly.

One more thing that I can add for you is that the amount of people that treat using copper has gone down as the popularity of refractometers and the hyposalinity method use has gone up. The reason being is that many people, myself included, feel that copper is a harsh treatment method and that hyposalinity is easier on the fish. This is definitely true for tangs since the copper can mess with their digestive system and being able to digest algae. Because of that, I usually recommend (although a little late this time) that the hypo treatment method, using a refractometer, is used with tangs and whichever method is prefered for most other fish. Copper is often the best treatment option for other diseases or if you are unsure if you have ich or Amyloodinium Ocellateum. In your case, if the copper was dosed correctly, it didn't kill your tang since the effects of copper on the digestive system of tangs causes them to starve over and extended period of time and wouldn't have killed the tang so quickly. Hopefully, your clownfish is on its way to recovery.

[rlcline76]

Sometimes the ich won't return after one of two more cycles and other times it will be much worse or your fish will die.

I am trying to get a hold of a study done by Burgess on how long ich lasts in your system if no treatment is applied and no carriers are introduced to the tank...supposedly 11 cycles before it dies out on its own. So just because someone does not treat and things seem to disappear on their own...not so, not in those first couple of weeks anyway...and definitely not at the rate that many people stock their tanks!

[pogodzib]

Good point Becky. Even if the ich doesn't reappear on your fish, does not mean that it is out of the system. It just means that your fish's immune system can fight off the ich. The fish may still be a host for ich and ich will remain in your system for a long time unless your tank goes fishless for several weeks.