[Zia]

Ok, I might of made a mistake yesterday listening to the LFS guy at another fish store I went to. He was telling me how he does things a little differently than what some other people do and what from what Ive been reading about how to set up and keep a SW Reef tank.
His tanks looked fabulous so I decided to listen to him and do as he suggested.

One the other hand, if this tank crashes and burns Im going to be unhappy of course and that got me to thinking "what if it does crash".

That is what has led me to start this topic of discussion.

So readers, please tell us about you worst experiences with your systems.

[Lowej82]

so what was some of the things that he was telling you? and what did you follow that you are concerned about? Im pretty new so I havent had alot of LFS deals yet been up for over 7 weeks now, I used bio-spira (lfs recomended this). I didnt know much about it came in here and learned bunches, Now its wait and see..... About to start my new 55 gal soon I wont be using it in this 1.

[Zia]

This guy yesterday told me if I will do 10% water changes every week AND vacuum the gravel too my tank will look like his do. He also said to add iodine and strontium ever week and calcium every day. NONE of the other guys told me that including the store I bought my 91/2 bls of premium $60.00 rock from. I bought all of my rock from that store actually.
He told me I could have alot of corals the other store that I got the rock from said I couldnt have with the lights that I have.
One really cool thing he told me was how to stablize my temp. The other store didnt tell me that either.
I dont know, Im taking his word that he knows his stuff because his tanks were very beautiful...ALL of them.
One thing Im excited about is a little piece a purple LR got last week has lots of little critters on it it didnt have last week when I put it in the tank.

[cappy290]

Hey Troy what did u do that has u worrying about your system? Lowej82 starting a 55gal build? I'm going to be starting a 90gal up soon myself i wont be doing the bio-spira this time either I'm going all natural since i dont even have the money for lights yet. Cant wait more room for more fish.

[Lowej82]

yea im about to get lights for my 55 gal. for now ill set them over my 29! T5 4X54 watts Nova extreme

im debating on drilling or not to drill. think i might get some bits and a couple cheap tanks from wally world to pratice on. im thinking of doing a undersand jet//spray bar powered by 2 maxi jet 900's. I have my 29 to play with so I this build will probally be slow, I plan to do a sump/fuge below i just dont want the overflow box on rear of tank, or pvs going over backside for return, id like to drill 4 holes in rear glass, 2 for 3/4" return and 2 for 1 1/4" overflows. lol while im at wally world ill check out there 55's to see what a replacement would cost,

I gave $125.00 for 55 gal tank hood & light + stand, also got a marineland emperor 400 with it, think i just paid $70 for the 1 that is on my 29

[Zia]

Well ok, but dont laugh. He said I could have a brain coral NOW!
He said I would need a fish too if I was going to get the brain coral.
He said I probably didnt even need to add any bacteria because Id used LR from an established tank but Ive been using some bottled bacteria anyway.
Everything is still looking good today. Even the snail I though was dead when I put him in there yesterday is doing ok today.
The little cromis is fine and the two shrimp are great too.
But the brain coral has turned brown on one side. He put off alot of mucus when I put him in there and immediately turned brown on that one side of him. On the paremeter of his body where hes attached to his rock on that side that is brown hes turned a silvery velvety color. Does anyone know what that is. Also, he put up some kind of antennae or something about an hour after I put him in there but hasnt done it since.
I put just a little frozen kelp in there yesterday and I thought the cleaner shrimp was going to hurt himself going after it. The shrimps and the fish acted fine right after I put them in are are continueing to do so. Im just waiting for the axe to fall here.

[cappy290]

Not sure what lights im going to get yet. Two people i know have lights that they are willing to sell just depends on the $$. Hopefully no more than $200 I think both are MH not sure will find out soon.

[pogodzib]

Besides for me not using a q-tank when I first started and killing off a few fish because of ich or dosing old food that had gone bad on me, the worst equipment thing that has happened to me that was preventable was when my return pump failed after a power outage. Since all of my heaters and my skimmer is in my sump, my tank water temp dropped to 68 degrees before I noticed it. By that time the fish and corals were starting to look sick. Now I use two smaller return pumps incase one fails, the second one will still circulate teh water through teh sump.

[Lowej82]

ive was told if you dont want to buy a chiller dont get MH!! instead of getting the 4x54 ima get (2) 2x54 so I have the option of building MH hood with my T5s combined,

[cappy290]

Lowej I would love to drill my tank I really didnt want an overflow box but if i have to so be it. Who knows maybe i will try and drill it, I like the idea of the spray bars i was thinking of doing somethig in that area also I think cyberjester did something really cool in his tank(Not sure if it was him or not but someone here had a nice build with heads all over the bottom of the tank) This will be a slow build so i am going to try and do everything i can with it. Soon as i get the tank I will take pics of it..

[Lowej82]

it was cyber, where I got the ideal from then I came across a article on it. I also seen a tank pics with like 6 diff bulkheads coming in back of galss to spray the back of a complete rockwall. I started a thread for my build so I would keep steal this guys thread sorry bud!!

heres a link to that thread
My 55 gal build... - Saltwater and Reef Aquarium Forums - Reef Builders Forum

[Zia]

I took some photos of the tank and their pretty good pictures but I dont know how to post them here.

Anyway, I got a really small crab on the live rock I bought earlier. I got an extra 8 pounds of LR rock today so now I have over 20 pounds.

[RyanG]

upload them in the gallery...

[Zia]

I tried to post photos in the gallery. The message says it doesnt recognize the files.
So much for that I guess.

Anyway, things are going well today in the tank.

Yesterday, the rock I got didnt come from a established tank. Its nice looking rock but one piece isnt so hot looking. It does had a very nice shape to it though and will look great once some some coraline gets to growing on it.

I found a little bits crab grazing on another rock yesterday. He was soooooo cute. So little bity and very hungry.

THEN today, I was horrified to find some sort of nasty looking worm looking thing with a very spiney body snooping around on a small rock. He was coming out of the big rock I got yesterday.

Luckily, he went to a much smaller rock and I was able to pick up that rock and get tha' little B**ard out of there. I have the rock in some water in the bathroom in a plastic baggy. Of course hes hiding in a crevice in it. Die sucker die!

[Sea in the City Orlando]

The very best thing you can do when starting a new reef tank is have patience. I advise my customers to stay away from damsels and most additives. Stay as natural as you can. When you first start your tank, throw in a piece of raw shrimp and let it break down in the tank. That will help build your biological filter just fine. Once you test out at 0 with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate remove the shrimp. Iodine can be very lethal to a tank if overdosed and most test kits for Iodine are not very accurate. Use a good salt like Tropic Marin, do weekly water changes of about 10% and a monthyly of about 25% and you'll get all the essential elements you need.

[Sea in the City Orlando]

THEN today, I was horrified to find some sort of nasty looking worm looking thing with a very spiney body snooping around on a small rock. He was coming out of the big rock I got yesterday.

Luckily, he went to a much smaller rock and I was able to pick up that rock and get tha' little B**ard out of there. I have the rock in some water in the bathroom in a plastic baggy. Of course hes hiding in a crevice in it. Die sucker die![/quote]

That was probably a bristle worm. Excellent scavenger in a tank. I'd leave them in as they are an essential part of a good cleanup crew. Just don't touch them as they do sting!

[Sea in the City Orlando]

Originally Posted by Zia

Well ok, but dont laugh. He said I could have a brain coral NOW!
He said I would need a fish too if I was going to get the brain coral.
He said I probably didnt even need to add any bacteria because Id used LR from an established tank but Ive been using some bottled bacteria anyway.
Everything is still looking good today. Even the snail I though was dead when I put him in there yesterday is doing ok today.
The little cromis is fine and the two shrimp are great too.
But the brain coral has turned brown on one side. He put off alot of mucus when I put him in there and immediately turned brown on that one side of him. On the paremeter of his body where hes attached to his rock on that side that is brown hes turned a silvery velvety color. Does anyone know what that is. Also, he put up some kind of antennae or something about an hour after I put him in there but hasnt done it since.
I put just a little frozen kelp in there yesterday and I thought the cleaner shrimp was going to hurt himself going after it. The shrimps and the fish acted fine right after I put them in are are continueing to do so. Im just waiting for the axe to fall here.

What type of lighting do you have? Brain corals and many other LPS are lower light corals, but still need a minimum amount. Also, make sure you're feeding them. Look into Piscene Energetics Mysis Shrimp and Frozen Cyclopeez for feeding.

[Sea in the City Orlando]

Also, I'd stay away from crushed coral for a substrate. Good aragonite sand is the absolute best as it allows for fauna to florish there and is a very important element in a natural reef system. It also allows for the best choice in cleanup crew such as nassarius snails, conchs, ceriths and such to move freely throughout and keep the substrate clean (stay away from sand sifting starfish as the are carnivores that will feed on living creatures in the sand and leave it barren). A solid 3" sandbed allows for an aerobic and anaerobic layer to form thus making for a very healthy system.

[Lazy Iguana]

I would avoid anyplace that recommends bacteria additives.

I experimented with Bio Spria and Cycle. I have had many tanks over many years. My first one was a 10g freshwater setup when I was around 10 years old. From there I moved to a 20 gallon, and then to a 55 gallon. I found the cycle process to always take about 2 weeks - give or take a day or two.

So when I tried a saltwater setup the first time, I used Cycle. That stuff was simply not available years ago (or if it was I did not know). Anyway I dosed with it daily and went through a bottle that was supposed to be good for up to 400 gallons or something. The 55 gallon still took the standard amount of time to cycle.

So then I set up a 5 gallon saltwater so I could put a lot of light over it cheaply. I used live sand and live rock - and Cycle. I also took a small piece of LR from the 55 gallon and a few cups of sand and put it in the 5 gallon. The rock and sand from the big tank was never out of the water for the transfer.

The cycle happened very quickly that time. Less than a week. Was it due to the Cycle or the stuff from the big tank? I suspect it was due to the stuff from the big tank.

Then I ran out of money and had to give it all up. All the water evaporated from the tanks making for some cool rock salt formations. I never had much in the tanks, and what was in there I was able to get rid of. I have some pretty nice base rock now, but that is about it.

Anyway a few years later I had a better job and more money and I was not in college anymore. So I put a 6 gallon FW setup in my office.

The fish store (over 20 years in business) was selling the Bio Spria stuff for both FW and SW. I asked about it and the people were not that big on it. They kept it in a small display fridge by the way. I bought some of it (it was rather expensive - like $15 or something) and set up the little office tank. I filled the tank with distilled water, added some stress coat stuff (that would not touch ammonia or chlorine) and the PH buffer to get my PH to be 7.0. Then I added a few drops of white non sudsy ammonia and the Bio Spira.

The cycle process still took about 2 weeks.

Conclusion - none of that stuff works. Bacteria is free. It is in the air. It is on rocks. It is in sand. It is everywhere. No need to buy it in a bottle. The stuff in the bottle is probably dead anyway.

PS - ever test Cycle? 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. So what do the bacteria in the bottle eat? What do they survive on?

Next step is to get a small bottle of Cycle and look at a drop of it under a microscope. Ill bet I do not see much of anything.

[Zia]

Ive been checking my ammonia levels, PH and so forth with a good test kit for the last few days.

Everything reads 0.

I bet that 9.5lb of LF from that established tank is what keeping things on a even keel so far.

[Zia]

Does anyone have any ideas about how to get that nasty looking little spiney worm out of my piece of LR?
The LR is about 3 inches long and hes up in one of the little holes in it hiding from me.
Ive had the rock in a bag of SW that my snails came in yesterday from the LFS.
Can I put that rock back into my tank after I get that critter out of there?
Yea, yesterday Frank told me I should just stop using the supposed bottled bacteria.
Thats a very good question Lazy Iquana, what does that bottled bacteria eat anyway?

[Lazy Iguana]

Most likely. Stuff from an established tank is really the only way to jump start a cycle, according to my experimentation which was not exactly "scientific". To be "scientific" I would have to have three tanks of equal size, each with the same filter setup with sterile biological media and each tank set to maintain the same temperature.

In one tank would go nothing except water
In the other tank bio product 1
In the other tank bio product 2, and so on.

Then I would carefully dose each tank with exactly the same amount of white non sudsy ammonia. Then test daily and graph the results.

For me to conclude that the products do anything, I would expect to see the tanks with commercial bacteria products cycle much faster. A day or so ain't gonan cut it. I want to see a tank cycle in 1/2 or 1/4 the time. Or even instantly - within a day.

[Zia]

Also Ive been checking the water and so forth very carefully everyday in the tank.
I just need to stay away from "Franks Tanks" for a few weeks.

Everyday I see something new growing out of the LR. Today in addition to the nasty little worm, I have the prettiest bright red sea fan starting to grow out of a little piece of LR. This is a rather expensive hobby starting out but its just a ton of fun watching this tank come to life.

[Sea in the City Orlando]

Is the worm kinda pink/orange with lots of lets? If so, it's a bristle worm and is an excellent part of the cleanup crew. I suggest leaving them in the tank...just be careful around them as they do sting.

[Zia]

No, the worm looks like a more like a inch long centepede and its a ugly beige color with a tiny little head.