[boba40]

i came home from work today and found my sand sifting starfish dead.over the last week i have lost several turbo snails.the fish are all doing good.ever since i developed cyano that i just cant shake, things do not seem right in the tank.i was testing my water once a week but now i am testing every other day.all parameters are good and i cut back on feeding the fish once a day instead of twice a day.
90 gallon tank
three 850 gph hydor power heads
asm g1 skimmer
water temp 79 degrees
lighting on for 6-7 hours
100 pounds plus live rock
bahamas sand bed
ph 8.4
amm-0
nitrites-0
nitrates-0
phosphate-0
calcium 500
10 percent water change weekly for the last three weeks.i am mixing twenty gallons now to do a larger scale water change.any other suggestions would be appreciated.

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by boba40

i came home from work today and found my sand sifting starfish dead.over the last week i have lost several turbo snails.the fish are all doing good.ever since i developed cyano that i just cant shake, things do not seem right in the tank.i was testing my water once a week but now i am testing every other day.all parameters are good and i cut back on feeding the fish once a day instead of twice a day.
90 gallon tank
three 850 gph hydor power heads
asm g1 skimmer
water temp 79 degrees
lighting on for 6-7 hours
100 pounds plus live rock
bahamas sand bed
ph 8.4
amm-0
nitrites-0
nitrates-0
phosphate-0
calcium 500
10 percent water change weekly for the last three weeks.i am mixing twenty gallons now to do a larger scale water change.any other suggestions would be appreciated.

I feel bad for your situation.

Remember this thread?

http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/n...html#post86686

In another thread a bunch of reefers were pushing Red slime remover and I went along with everyone just to be sarcastic. Here we are. Now what? Its a lot of work to recover from slime this severe. Most tanks do not make it.

Like I said before, "its a battle you can lose".

[ianizaguirre]

bahamas sand bed ??? this could be the problem here

[demonsquirt]

What type of food is added and the amount?
Any fish or coral?

[boba40]

i use spectrum thera A+ .5mm sinking pellets.one small pinch a day.
i have one longnose hawk fish,two clowns,two goby and a blue green chromis,and approx a dozen mixed hermit crabs.
as far as corals i have some polyps,a frogs spawn and a sea cabbage.
ian i don't think the sand is the problem,however my tank was crystal clear unti i performed a 12 gallon water change.when i did this change the lfs was out of the red sea coral pro salt that i had been using so i used instant ocean salt instead.a couple of days later is when my problems started.
if i leave my lights off for just one day the tank clears up beautifully,if i put the lights on for just one day the bottom covers quickly with a rust color bloom.i am not getting the "sheets" of slime that i had before but more of a dusty coating.

[boba40]

jim
i looked nat the previous post that you mentioned,in that post you thought that i should pinpoint the excessive nitrate and phosphate source.
my tests show that they are not the problem as they read 0.does that make any sense?

[dinor2]

Hmmm, not that I can say 100% for sure, but, I CAN tell you that when i tried switching to red sea salt, some cyano showed up in my tank, that was about 3 months ago, it's almost gone now... I also had to cut back on feeding, I'd let the fish go for a day or two at a time with no food and that seemed to help the cyano go down dramatically.

I am sorry you're going thru this, cyano is always frustrating and always seems to be an issue at one point or another!

[boba40]

my tank was originally set up with the red sea coral pro salt.i had no problems until i used instant ocean.

[teriyakithunder]

well it sounds like it could be that type of salt. maybe the different salts don't get along or something in a weird way. i used instant ocean when i first started and somehow developed that red slime. but i bought a uv filter and i now use oceanic salt. i only get tiny patches of red algae on my glass and just wipe it off not the slime anymore. its been a few years since the slime too. but this is all just my experience with it.

[Br14n55reef]

i use instant ocean salt all 10 yrs now and love it only because i dont use anything else but. although i have heard of ppl mixing different salts and never havein problems like this. i would test your makeup water for metals. maybe thats it. strange thats for sure!

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by boba40

jim
i looked nat the previous post that you mentioned,in that post you thought that i should pinpoint the excessive nitrate and phosphate source.
my tests show that they are not the problem as they read 0.does that make any sense?

http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/n...html#post86686


Referring to the thread you posted before this looking for answers...weeks/months ago?

You can take any ones advice here and thats fine. We all have our own opinions but...did you take my advice?
The absolute best, fastest way out of this was to physically remove the Cyano every couple days at the end of your light cycle when the bacteria is at its highest growth for the day.

Cyano when its on the substrate is fairly easy to cope with. Its when it gets in your rock work that life just starts to suck. Im sure you are to that point by now.


As far as your tests reading zero phosphates its because the Cyano is using them up at the source. Trust me...phosphates are in there.

My thoughts are the same as before. Longer you wait the less chance of recovery.

Hope you get it worked out.

[spanko]

At the risk of sounding redundant:

Here are my thoughts on Cyano.

Red Slime (Cyano Bacteria)
Cyano grows on top of nutrient rich areas of low flow. There are a number of things that need to be correct or possibly corrected to combat this without the use of chemical additives. The biggest thing is to get rid of the extra nutrients.
1. Evaluate your feeding. If you are feeding more than can be eaten in about 1-2 minutes it is too much and the remainder of it is falling to the rock and sand and becoming nutrient.
2. Evaluate your flow. If you have areas in the tank where there is little to no flow this can be corrected by adding power heads or repositioning the ones you already have. You don’t need to create sand storms just have water moving over the area to keep detritus suspended in the water column for removal by your filter – skimmer.
3. Evaluate your water changes. The solution to pollution is dilution! You want to continually remove unneeded nutrients as well as replace those things that are used by the system. 10% weekly is a good change schedule. Some do 20% every other week and some vary the schedule from there, but a good start is 10% per week.
4. Evaluate your lighting schedule. About 10 hours of daylight is all that is needed.
5. If you have a cyano outbreak do the above 4 items andh:
a. At water change time siphon off the cyano first. It will come up easily almost like a blanker.
b. After siphoning stir the affected areas a little to suspend any detritus for the water change and filtering - skimming removal.
c. Use a turkey baster now and at every water change in the future to again suspend the detritus for removal by the water change and your filtering – skimming.

Keeping nutrient levels low to non-existent will help to avoid cyano outbreaks and any algae outbreaks as well as keep your tank and you happy happy.

Hope that helps.
__________________
Henry

[demonsquirt]

Your star would like small bits of meaty food even little bits of raw shrimp. I would mix your diet up with brine and cyclops and flake and marine cusine. Use 4 or 5 types for better diet.

[boba40]

jim,
yes,at the time of the original post i used red slime remover and i did take your advice and had started siphoning every other day.i took five gallons at a time and replaced with five gallons of new salt water.i am going to do alot of siphoning tonite as i have mixed 25 gallons of water with the red sea coral pro salt.

[boba40]

well we did a 24 gallon water change last thursday.needless to say i was able to vac through alot of the substrate.i also bought another koralia power head that is rated at 1200 gph.now in total powerheads i have;
1- 1200 gph
1- 600 gph
2-850 gph
i think that i have the flow covered.
with these changes the tank conditions have really improved , i think that the cyano is under control now.i also put another twelve mexican turbo snails in the mix and man can they clean a tank!

[IceMan]

i think i'd be more worried about that calc. level than the cyano. what is your dKH at? you need to get that down or it's gonna precipitate, or make limestone...

[boba40]

i was concerned with the calcium but red sea claims that 450 - 500 is normal for the coral pro label.just as well how would you lower the calcium levels?

[IceMan]

i use red sea coral pro, have since startup. i get about 440 on fresh mix at 1.024 spec. grav.

assuming your dKH is low:

to lower it you can add alk. get your dKH up gradualy and it should bring it down. it will precip some of it and allow corals and coraline to use it you want it at around 10

remember for every molecule of calcium two molecules of caron are needed for growth, as the calcium carbonate is made.

don't quote me on that, that's the best i can remember of the science of it...

test your dKH before changing anything though.

[IceMan]

reef builder by seachem does a great job of it by the way

[boba40]

i just tested my kh and it is way off the scale.the test kit said i should be around 105,i am reading 190.i guess that i will have to consult with the lfs unless somebody here can help.

[IceMan]

something is off man... if you had that high dKH and 500 calc. your substrate would be one solid rock and water would be snowing...

[boba40]

well i guess i will do another calcium and kh test as soon as i get my daughter to bed.i will post my results again by 9 tonite.

[demonsquirt]

Your readings look fine. How are those powerheads pointed and are they on a controller?
All you feed is a sinking pellet food?
If so its just collecting on the bottom.
Is the tank by a window or by a vent?
What does this cyno look like?
Whats the tanks age?
Is there a tank pic somewhere?

[boba40]

the power heads wer paralell with the surface just deep enough not to suck air.i hav purchased another powerhead,this one is 1200gph.i now have four powerheads in all.the two front corner heads are now pointing down towards the substrate.one back corner is pointing towards the surface and the other back is mounted about 6 inches off of the bottom paralell with the bottom.the flow seems to be working great.
i had been feeding flakes but was talked into sinking pellets by the lfs.the tank is about 12 feet away from any windows but does get natural daylight exposure,no direct sun.as of now the tank is a little over five months old.i will try to post some pics.http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/n...html#post86686

[demonsquirt]

You want to create a current in your tank like a river kinda. Placing powerheads at the surface isnt needed. The 1200 is above the half way point for needed flow.

This looks like a combination of low flow or incorrect flow position and improper CUC and the pellets. Pellets are fine but few a far in between on there addition. Use 5 or 6 type from flake to differant types of frozen. A well mixed diet is best.
And feed less more often to reduce un eatin food.

Right now you can do a 25% water change and right before you drain mix up a small area of substrate. Then 20% weekly changes mixing up differant areas.
Then get some nass snails , 5 good start and correct flow and this will go away.