[boba40]

ok,i did a search on nitrate levels and became slightly confused by what i read.the nitrate level in my 90 gal. tank is approx. 20ppm.from what i have read in the searched threads that would be an acceptable level.the lfs is telling me that i should be at zero , as my nitrites and ammonia are.
i have a sump with a media tray.can i use a filter bag with Nitrex or Nitrate sponge in place of the pad or should i not worry about the nitrate unless it creeps higher?

[pogodzib]

Most people consider 20ppm nitrates acceptable in a FO tank, but not in a reef tank. I don't consider an nitrates acceptable in my reef tanks, but some people think that a little (less than 5ppm) is alright and can even be beneficial. As far has how to lower your nitrates, I am not a fan of filter bags and media because they need to be changed often. You should try to find the source of the nitrates (poor replacement water, overfeeding, additives, equipment, too little LR, etc...) and fix it.

[unclejed]

The zero nitrate is a debatable issue. I am sure from time to time you could catch your tank at zero, maybe after a substantial water change, and if you are one that does weekly changes (of which I am not a fan) you may keep reading zero or next to zero. However, that does not mean there are no nitrates. Nitrates are a result of a healthy aquarium. It shows the natural process of waste being broken down. One contention I have about readings from test kits is, how accurate is that particular test kit. This in and of itself is a debatable subject for another time. From my own experience and seeing what is used in many lfs around my area I use the American Pharmaceuticals brand. Their nitrate shows nitrates when others don't. I am not promoting, just telling you my experience. Many corals (especially soft) actually use nitrates. A low level is beneficial to them. In my estimation many reef keepers become obsessed with the whole zero nitrate idea to the extent they are constantly doing water changes and disrupting the water chemistry in their tanks. Keeping nitrates low is optimal to the overall health of your tank but obsessing over it is needless worry. Far to many aqurists are more concerned with nitrates than overall water quality i.e. Calcium, Magnesium, Alkalinity, Iodine,SG and PH. Keeping these stable and not allowing big fluctuations is far more important the health of the inhabitants of your tank. Too many times I have read on this and other forums where people state they don't even have test kits for some of the things I mentioned and worse yet are adding supplements blindly! And no, water changes don't necessarily put back all these things in the correct proportions and so that's all you need. Mag, calc and others can be used up quite fast in a biologically growing tank. The sea is very stable actually and the closer you can get to mimicking it's level and stability the better off your system will be.
Mine are always at those levels and i'm happy and so is the tank, check it out;http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/55gal021.jpg

[pogodzib]

Originally Posted by unclejed

The zero nitrate is a debatable issue.

Yes, it is a debatable issue, but the debate is whether a couple ppm nitrates is good or bad, not if 20ppm nitrates is bad. Virtually everyone will agree that 20ppm nitrates is bad in typical reef tanks.

Originally Posted by unclejed

Nitrates are a result of a healthy aquarium.

I disagree. Having minimal nitrates is a sign of a healthy aquarium. Any poorly maintained aquarium will have nitrates. My aquarium never has detectable levels of nitrates and there are plenty of people that will agree that my tank is thriving. And yes, I've used several very highly rated brands to test for nitrates. If you stock and feed your tank lightly, have a good skimmer and plenty of LR, achieving zero, or at least close to no, nitrates is very doable without excessive tank maintenance.

Originally Posted by unclejed

The sea is very stable actually and the closer you can get to mimicking it's level and stability the better off your system will be.
Mine are always at those levels and i'm happy and so is the tank, check it out;http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/55gal021.jpg

The oceans nitrate level is typically less than 0.1 ppm, so in order to mimic those levels, any accurate hobby grade test kit will always read zero.

[boba40]

i have over 120 lbs. of live rock and have cut back on feeding the fish to every other day and only once during their feeding day.my skimmer was overskimming,filling with water not foam but it seems to be correcting itself as of this morning.
i have an eshopps advanced series sump which has a refugium.in the refugium i have about an inch and a half of sand along with several pieces of lr rubble.do you think i should remove the sand and just have rock?
i had had a bad cyano outbreak two weeks ago and while treating for it i managed to loose my polyps and a couple of other softies.for now i will stick to a fowlr set up until i get the hang of keeping my water quality up.

[IceMan]

i'm not gettin in on th debgate, but talking to boba40:

i had no3 up between 15 and 20 between water changes and added a refugium useing caulerpa prolifera, within 2 weeks no3 was down to aprx. 5 and by week three undetectable on my test (API)

[boba40]

thanks iceman, i will look into that.

[jimw369]

Now that Im getting a little more involved with SPS I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt 0 Nitrates is preferrable and not beneficial in this type of tank.

Lets be honest with the whole nitrate thing. Yeah, stuff can live with some nitrates. At what level is it where corals start to suffer I dont know. Lets not forget that Nitrates cause most of the other problems that start in our tanks and that in itself is a good reason to keep them at 0.

Nitrates come from over feeding first and laziness second.

[boba40]

i will tell you that the laziness is not the issue.just ask my wife,i spend more time with the tank than i do with her(no she is not that ugly)

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by boba40

i will tell you that the laziness is not the issue.just ask my wife,i spend more time with the tank than i do with her(no she is not that ugly)

What caused your Cyano outbreak and why when it first appeared wasnt it taken care of? I have had to deal with the Cyano issue. All reefers do at some point in time. When I saw your tank pic it looked like it was all over the place.

Its my guess some of the nitrates you are experiencing are from decomposing matter leftover from the cyano. This in itself can start it all over again if you are not agressively skimming and putting your tank on a diet for a while.

Your skimmer is the #1 line of defense against excess nutrients.

Other things to help are keeping Alk in the upper ranges and a steady Ph of 8.3-8.4.

Good luck with the tank!

[boba40]

when the cyano first appeared it covered the tank in ONE day.i took the advice of both the lfs and used red slime remover followed by a 15 gallon water change which was then followed up with a five gallon vac and water change every other day for a week which led to another dosing of red slime remover which was recomended by the lfs and then a 24 gallon vac and water change.far from lazy as i spent most of my free time lugging and mixing ro/di water for all of these changes.to call someone lazy without knowing their situation is a little ignorant.

[IceMan]

ok guys... play nice!!! we all want the same thing, solve each others problems and world peace or something like that... someone else can do th lil wave.

i'll be the lazy one.

it never ceases to amaze me though at how you can have what appears to be identicle care and routines from 5 different reefers and get 5 different results. in your case you have either. a problem with your tests (that's it in my opinion, don't think the chemistry would work) or you have the strangest water makeup i've ever heard of, you might win some kinda new discovery prize! lol i'd take some samples to the LFS or an experienced friend n get it retested.

[boba40]

i just finished the calcium and kh test.the calcium test i must of did wrong the last time.this test i got a 440 as the result.the kh is coming in at 180-190.i did this test twice and got the same results.

[boba40]

one thing that i did not mention regarding the cal. and kh.i have been using purple up as the lfs suggested.i have been putting two capfuls twice a week.

[IceMan]

oh ok you are talking KH or ppm, i was talking about dKH or degrees... you are fine then, that would be about 10.5 dKH (great) and 440 calc. (Great)

you are sittin on go, i thought something was odd, i looked back and realized we were talking apples and oranges on the alk.

[IceMan]

just keep an eye on them, as long as you stay in balance and don't outrun consumption you'll be fine

[IceMan]

just stay on top of it as you calc. can start to precip. around 450-460

also get you a red sea mag. test, simplest test i know of for mag., and cheap for good quality test. if you stick with the red sea coral pro you will likely be good on mag. as it tests high fresh mix but still another to occasionaly monitor.

good luck!

[boba40]

hey iceman,thanks for your time

[IceMan]

no problem man, if i can help someone else i'm kinda paying back all the time others gave me.

[pogodzib]

Most chemicals that treat problems also kill off bacteria. So, by dosing the red slime remover (not recommended unless it is the last resort and other brands, such as Chemi-Clean, work much better), it may have helped your nitrate levels to rise. Often, when cyano appears, a tank will have high phosphate levels. Purple Up alone shouldn't cause nitrate issues, but it can affect other water parameters which could end up resulting in an unstable tank with high nitrate levels. I would stop using it. Coraline will grow on its own in time.

[boba40]

point taken pogozib.i had tried chemi clean first and did not see any changes.i then did a 20% water change,waited a couple of days then tried the red slime remover-tank cleared within a day,however the cyano came back a few days later.it has been a week today that i did the 24 gallon water change(and siphoning of the sand)and the results are great.the lfs recommends doing a 15 gallon water change every ten days or so.i can" wait to get my own ro/di system,i have been getting the water from wal mart 30 gallons at a time.

[pogodzib]

Glad to hear that things are looking better. Many people have reported having problems with the RO water they get from stores. Often, the water isn't nearly as good as our in-home RO/DI systems since the stores don't want to spend the money on changing out filters all of the time. Yes, the water should be better than your tap water, but it may still have high levels of contaminants, which may be aiding your nitrate and cyano problems.

And I forgot to mention, it isn't uncommon for tanks in the 3-6 month old range to run into cyano issues. Once the tank matures, cyano issues usually get better, at least until the substrate is full of detritus (waste).

[boba40]

thanks for every bodies input.it is nice to know that you can come here to get help when needed.it certainly is a learning experience.

[unclejed]

For pog and all the rest who are interested read this artical;Aquarium Information - Water change and nitrates

[boba40]

good article unclejed.