[SantaMonica]

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Results of the Day:


"darkblue" on the RP site says, "Been running a 4"x10" OHF [over head filter scrubber] version on my 15g for almost 2 months already. My Nitrate reading started dropping after around 3 weeks. I've had 0 Nitrates for a month now. I'm using Seachem for my tests. The screen is just partially covered with what I think are patches of brown turf."

And "jfdelacruz", also on the RP site, says "I recently implemented this on my tank. I [originally] had an overhead filter to try and filter out a lot of detritus, and changed out filter foams every week. nitrates and phosphates were high and I had brown algae (kinda like cyano) on my sandbed already too thick to fight. I did the 2 days lights out and it took out the brown film algae. I bought a 10watt fluorescent light from carti and then cut a right fit cross-stitch cloth as my screen and layed it flat on my OHF and took out the foam. lights are on 24/7 [temporarily]. I'm on my 5th day and algae is basically non existent in the tank, while the whole cloth is covered in the same brown film algae that covered my sandbed and is starting to grow the green algae. 10,000K ung fluorescent and after day 2 it already had algae on it. on day 3 the whole cloth was lightly covered. im still waiting for day 10. also Im going on a 2nd week no water change just to try it out and so far everything's doing good. coral's are happy and clam is happy. inverts and clownfish is also happy and eating lots of cyclopeeze everyday!


Also, I'm putting together a little series on how nutrients work in our aquariums. It will hopefully help folks better understand what affects what, and how we can make things work their best. Here's the first one below. I use Salifert for my testing, so I'll just refer to them:
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[SantaMonica]

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Builds Of The Day:

This one is from "Sandztorm" on the RP site; it is a version of the nano that I listed on page 1, where a simple screen replaces the foam filter in the hood, and a light is added on top:






This one from "Coopattack" on the FG site wraps the PVC around the bottom of the screen to hold it in place:









Here is a trough version by "framerguy" on the CR site (the lights have since been lowered closer to the trough):












This one from "Labman" on the MD site wanted a taller one in a more narrow size, so he attached two plastic canvas screens together:






"Johntanjm" from the MD site placed screens on both sides of the bulb, instead of a bulb on both sides of the screen:






"Mrobo77031" on the UR site just attached the pipe and lights to the stand, and put some reflective material around it:






And "Mudshark" on the MASA site just drilled the pvc with holes, and wrapped a screen around it:


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[SantaMonica]

Well here is my 7-day cleaning from yesterday. First, here's the screen before cleaning, looking at the the edge:










Here's the screen after cleaning:







And here's what was removed:







So it was a half-pound of wet green hair, about the same as last week. Once thing about cleaning green hair compared to real turf (my other screen that's now at the LFS) is that it slides off so easy, it's hard to leave any on the screen. I tried to only clean one side, but some of the other side detached too. You can almost just run tap water over it, and the loose stuff comes off. Maybe a better design is two half-screens, so you can just pull one out and clean it completely, while not touching the other one.

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day:

Why Larger Is Not Better: A larger screen, by itself (without larger lights), is not better than a smaller screen. This means that if you want more nitrate and phosphate removal from your water, the best way to do it is by getting stronger lights, or by moving the lights closer to the screen. If all you do is get a larger screen, the new larger edges of the screen will be too far from the light to have any effect. Of course, the most effective way to increase nitrate and phosphate removal is to do all three: Increase screen size; add more lights to cover the new screen parts; and position all the lights closer to the screen.

[SantaMonica]

Text Version:

Food --> fish,corals --> Organic Nitrate, Organic Phosphate.

Organic Nitrate, Organic Phosphate --> Bacteria --> Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic Phosphate.

Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic Phosphate --> Algae --> Oxygen

[SantaMonica]

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Reminder Of The Day:

Feeding: Here are the two building block articles by Eric Borneman that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to understand what scrubbers do:

The Food of Reefs, Part 5: Bacteria by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com
The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter by Eric Borneman - Reefkeeping.com

Here is an excerpt from the second one:

"Detritus [waste] ... is the principal food source for the many bacterial species that work in various nitrification and denitrification activities. Before reaching the microbial community, however, [waste] acts as a food source for the smaller consumers such as amphipods, copepods, errant polychaetes, protozoans, flagellates, ciliates and other animals whose activities contribute to the stability and productivity of a coral reef and a coral reef aquarium."

and

"Of the many food sources available to corals and already discussed in this series of articles, particulate organic material [waste], dissolved organic material [DOC/DOM], and bacteria are the most universally accepted food sources"

and

"The use of detrital material, or particulate organic material, as food source is a cornerstone of coral reef ecology and forms what is well accepted to be the base of the entire food chain"
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[SantaMonica]

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Here's one reason I really like using scrubber without a skimmer. My purple gorg and red feather star stay open and extended all day and night, even though they naturally do so only during the night. But since there is no skimmer removing organics (food), and since the scrubber adds pods to the water all day, not only do they eat well, but they do so 24/7. Note: You cannot keep filter feeders likes these if you have a skimmer...



Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/My90starAndGorg.jpg
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[Bonneville08]

Hello SantaMonica,
I hope you still look at this thread, as I've joined reefbuilders to contact you. I have used an algal turf filter for a number of years and would not give it up for anything. I appreciate that you are passionate about them, and believe they are not utilized enough in our hobby.
I saw your thread on RC and can understand your frustration. Although my scrubber is successful, it is not without its handicaps. IMO a protein skimmer and GAC are an important part of this nutrient control method. The hobby and its recognized experts weighed in on turf scrubbers years ago.
I don't agree with anyone who calls them useless, and my experience backs up your assertions about low Nitrates (I don't measure Phosphates). I believe that the approach I use provides a healthy environment for all of my aquarium inhabitants, and that we should not focus on Nitrate and Phosphate as the sole concern of our water quality.
I read extensively prior to designing my system and it shows that you have done the same. Have you read any of the negative comments about turf filters from experts in our hobby?
You might do well to broaden your education about turf filters.
Good luck with your aquarium

[SantaMonica]

Welcome to RB! I did read your RC postings... I remember the username. I think folks on every forum would love to hear of your setup/success, especially with the sps.

I have indeed been studying... I think I found the disconnect where scrubbers died out about 5 years ago... was a combination of things, and fortunately all are fixed now. If you see anything I post here that you think the RC folks should see, feel free to post them there too.

[jimw369]

Santas biggest problem is not what others post about ATS but what he posts about others that ask questions. All I ever see is smart comments with little to no value in his responses or canned posts that he uses on all the salt forums.

Until 9/11/08 santa never showed anything but a pic of an ATS in a 5 gal bucket next to a sink while touting he had this hooked to his tank working miracles. He never has posted any scientific approach or produced records indicating his findings. He has changed his story since the RC days to make his statements more in tune with what mainstream reefers are more apt to believe. He is promoting something to come in the future by him or some other entity. I would say this is the reason for shutting these threads down on another site for the reasons of spam.

The research has been already been done and ATS were abandoned for the most part due to an increase in the efficiency of skimmers, DSB and large amounts of LR we now keep in out tanks and sumps.

Very interesting and Im glad we have had a chance to read more about the ATS but I feel this shroud of deciet surrounding santas posting has taken away from real information we would like to learn from.

[SantaMonica]

Jimw369, while I try to figure out if RB has an ignore function so that I don't see your posts anymore, I'll just say to you that until you prove that I am indeed a liar ("deceit"), then you are bordering on defamation.

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by SantaMonica

Jimw369, while I try to figure out if RB has an ignore function so that I don't see your posts anymore, I'll just say to you that until you prove that I am indeed a liar ("deceit"), then you are bordering on defamation.

Why wont you post a pic of that scrubber on your tank? Just post the pic and I will humbly apologize for any harm I may have caused you.

The pic with the 5 gal bucket...on your tank and functioning...thats all...the one you did all your research on

[RyanG]

I agree with Jim, Santa. Your going to need to respond to questions you get about your setup instead of just posting information.

[jimw369]

I noticed you run carbon for a short period every so often. How often and for how long and why? I saw in a previous post where you mentioned we could come to the point we dont need to run carbon. Has that changed since your research has started?

[SantaMonica]

Fortunately, I remembered where to find the ignore function.

[Hosser]

Santa I have to say that from the very begining I had an intrest in at least the information I even stood up for this thread, now after that last remark I feel this thread and you need to be removed from the site, you bring up a nice product with great DIY now why not answer questions?
Its sad really you were given more of a platform here then elswhere and you screwed it.

[SantaMonica]

Because you did not ask a question.

[Hosser]

Originally Posted by jimw369

Why wont you post a pic of that scrubber on your tank? Just post the pic and I will humbly apologize for any harm I may have caused you.

The pic with the 5 gal bucket...on your tank and functioning...thats all...the one you did all your research on

I believe when you have any of the words who, what, where , when, how and WHY followed by a "?" that 100% denotes a question.
So I will ask it again for Jim and all of us to know......WHY (thats a question forming word) wont you post a pic of that scrubber on your tank ?
That sure looks lke a question to me.

[AaronAcker]

I'm just curious why when people post questions your response is word for word your story, or the same info from another post? Are you coping and pasting these automatic responses?

I have no intent of demotion in this statement, just curious, as people are going to have a hard time learning from a "bot" type thread. I agree with Jim, and the others posts, but had you came w/ a sales approach I believe the response from people (here and on other forums) would be different.

[e_baer]

Great DIY posts, but like others have said, why not just post a pic of this thing in use with your tank? It will sure solve a lot of problems and un-answered questions.

[Bonneville08]

Hi Folks,
I don't know if you are looking for a photo of any tank with an ATS. I have one and I posted some photos on the identical thread on RC. In addition to the ATS, I use a skimmer and carbon continuously. I tried to post a photo here and got my butt kicked, I'm not what you would call internet literati.
SantaMonica, thanks for the welcome. I came here to continue this discussion, and hope that I can add some value to the thread and forum.

[Hosser]

Hey Russ, we were asking for Santa to post pics of HIS, he posts pics of others but he has stated in every one of his threads that he has run this on HIS tank, thats what we are asking to see. Its a great discussion but questions have been posed to him because we want to see HIS answers not something copied and pasted or some smart remark about him posting it elswhere.

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by Bonneville08

Hi Folks,
I don't know if you are looking for a photo of any tank with an ATS. I have one and I posted some photos on the identical thread on RC. In addition to the ATS, I use a skimmer and carbon continuously. I tried to post a photo here and got my butt kicked, I'm not what you would call internet literati.
SantaMonica, thanks for the welcome. I came here to continue this discussion, and hope that I can add some value to the thread and forum.

Do I have to run carbon with a scrubber and what will happen if I dont? I remember reading a previous post that said I will be able to stop using carbon.

[Zoobie]

SantaMonica Exposed

With a little time and google, you can find out things like:

SantaMonica is spewing the same information all over the internet. I do not know the total number of forums this stuff has been posted on but it is a lot. Over 20 for sure.

Why? Passion, agenda or just plain nuts - I don't know.

I do know that even though he attempts to pass himself off as some kind of self appointed algae scrubber guru, he only set up his first scrubber 3-4 months ago. Wouldn't think it by the way he talks huh?

He has been run off of forums by other posters.
He has been run off of forums by forum moderators.

He doesn't "appear" to post on any thread except his own on any forum. This alone says he is a man on a mission. It is MY personal opinion that if someone only joins a forum to spew their own agenda that this should be considered a form of SPAM and worthy of being banned from a forum.

As soon as someone challenges him, he takes the defensive and immediately starts flaming the poster to the point of personal attacks.

He will take a one time observation of something that happens with his limited experience and make his own assumptions at what this means and then spew it out as gospel like a 10 year field study had been done on the matter.

I think my own biggest problem with this guy is the way he has gone about his "mission". He keeps cramming the same info down your throut and needs you to comply and needs you to report back to him so that he can copy and paste YOUR findings as part of his own on other forums.

I am not contesting that scrubbers don't have a place in this hobby. They can certainly be an added benefit to some systems. They are not the cure all. They will not replace all your other equipment.

IF SantaMonica would have joined a forum and started a thread with the attitude of, "Hey - I'm going to experiment with algae scrubbers and I would like others THAT ARE INTERESTED in building one to do so as well. This way we can pass our observations, experiences, ideas, etc. back and forth as we all progress through this new experience." This would have kept everyone on the same playing field instead of, "I'm the guru. Come to me. I have all the answers. I will guide you and solve all your problems. If you aren't with me - piss off."

Do a search for yourself - I'm sure there is more to EXPOSE!

[e_baer]

BTW, your tank looks great. What kind of lighting are your running? Also, what sort of livestock do you have? Do you ever frag, because I am definately interested if you do frag!