[Daddyoh1]

It's either late or I'm just confused about QT's. I am planning to definately set one up and have done a substantial amount of reading on the subject but it seems there is a lot of different takes on the subject. Can any one shed some light and simplfy it for me? To start 10g tank to be used.QT everything, corals, fish, inverts. Ok I got that, but LR too I thought that could be done in your display as it is curing and cycling ? In the QT beside using tank water are you adding anything else beside observation.than how do you transfer to display with out contaminating ? typical acclimation I figure but I'm talking physically with which net? Am I over thinking it ? I just want to do it right. Going to use foam filter (soaking in sons tank to accume bacteria) PVC no problem for hiding, even painting bottom to cure reflections and using backing for back and sides to help lessen stress. But how do tell if invert ready to go into display fish I more or less know ( eating, behavior looks ) I'll take any advice one can offer what do you all do ? Didn,t even talk of lighting. Any site or good articles I should read please advise. THANKS

[unclejed]

Hello John, I never was a fan of QTs. Too much stress on the fish. They are caught and taken from the ocean (stress) then shipped (stress) then introduced to LFS tanks (stress) then you buy and transport (stress) then you QT (stress) and finally introduced to your display, more stress!
I let the LFS QT for me. Good LFS will have a date when the fish, coral etc. came in and if I want something that has come in but has been there for a week or less they will hold it for me for another week or two depending on the creature.
I hate to try and dissuade you but I have lost very few creatures over the years. My contention is that acclimation is far more important.
Acclimation depends on the environment the fish came from (LFS) and where it is going (your tank). For example, if you get a fish (or other denizen of the deep) from LFS and his tank is at .021 SG and 80 degrees and you are at .024 and 79 degrees, those (to aquarium life) are big differences not to mention alkalinity. Therefore the acclimation would be 1 hour to 1 hour and fifteen minutes instead of say 45 min. if both environments were close. With corals, you need to know all the parameters of the LFS (Calc, ALk, Mag etc.) to best acclimate your new addition.
Less stress, the happier everyone is.

[CyberJester]

I would have to say I disagree with Jed on this. QT is an essential part of introducing fish into a display aquarium.

The main reason for this is the fact of all the stressors that he mentioned. To the other factions that are in the chain of custoday from the fishes original lcation to yours. This is merely a product. they really do not care if the fish lives or dies. To them it is cheaper to mishandle the fish and if it dies get another from the ocean.

Plus a lot of the fish stores will not even hold the fish for you past a couple of days. This is because they know the chain of custoday better then you do and how poorly these fish are treated before they get to you. Most fish stores optimal goal is to get the fish out as shortly after arrival as possible.

Using a QT tank, to me should be a long interm position (between 3 - 6 weeks). Therefore this does not really add the fishes stress. Actually it helps reduce its stress over placing right into the tank. Here there are no other teritorial fish to produce another level of stress to the newly aquired fish. Also, I prefer to keep lower lamp levels on QT's for the fact that the fish has had a lot of time in the dark during tansport and the reef tank light levels are very strong after the duration of shipping.

Keep you QT empty of all items except, possibly an upside down clay pot with opening (cave) for the fish to hide in and feel secure during the acclimation period.

When it comes time to transfer to display tank test both tanks and make sure the params are the same (or very close), if they are not take a couple of days to bring the params closer into alignment.

Hope this helps

[Rad3dad]

I see where your coming from unclejed, and completely agree about the acclimation process. But I do feel that quarantine is a necessary step in protecting all the other fish in your display. How much stress would it cause if what appeared to be a clean fish was to infect your whole display with ich. Having to dismantle the whole tank, to catch all of your fish, then placing them all in quarantine to be treated. Then you would have to leave the main tank fish free for 6 weeks for the ich to perish in the system, drastically changing the bio load of the tank. Then only to overload the display with bio load after treatment was finished, by putting them all back in. It's not worth the risk or all the work involved IMO.

Waiting a week or two to bring the fish home from the fish store is a good step, and a healthy fish would have hopefully recovered from all the physical effects that shipping can cause by that time. You should try and match the qt tank with the water perimeters the new fish came from and slowly over the term of quarantine, acclimate it to your display tank perimeters. A few points of Alk over a couple weeks is much better then a few points over a couple hours.

There will be many different opinions on quarantine, and each side has its pro's and con's, but I have never killed a fish in quarantine, that didn't die from something that would not have spread to the rest of my tank. On the other hand, I have kicked myself for not following my own advice, on more then one occasion, which is why I recommend it.

To give my opinion on the other questions of the op, If you are just setting up a new tank, you can cycle the live rock in the display tank right from the start, while the whole system cycles. For the QT tank, I mentioned trying to match the water in the qt tank as close as possible to the water in the transport bag, then over a long period of time, change the perimeters to match your display tank. I would not add any thing unneeded and only treat for something, if it develops. QT tanks are not the same as hospital tanks. To transfer, by the time you are ready to do so, the water in the qt tank should be the same as the display, usually by means of using the display tanks water for the water changes in the acclimation process in the QT. Subdued lighting is known for a calming effect for acclimating fish, and most stores turn the tank lights off while acclimating fish, I follow that rule.

I personally don't QT inverts and corals, knowing what to look for (pests, tissue, general apperance...) goes a long way. You should be able to spot any problems before you buy them, or while there floating in the bag during acclimation.

[unclejed]

Yes, yes rad, however, I must point out the great number of posts from the 3 forums I am a member of that do quarantine and still got ick when introduced to the display. It is debatable and I have success using my method and others theirs, Just what a forum is supposed to be...an exchange of ideas, facts and experience.
This is one of those subjects in our hobby (of which there are many) that do not have a clear cut "do this and everything will be fine" answer.

[jimw369]

Great veiws from both sides and once again we make it complicated. There is a big difference in a "common" reef tank which is the category most of us fall into and a upper class or even world class tank. No one I know that puts $5-$10K or more in corals for there tank doesnt believe in very strict QT procedures for everything including the cooking of LR. Again this applies more to the serious reefer as that person has far more to lose than most of us here.

[Daddyoh1]

WoW ! never expected to genrate such passion. Thanks for your responses. Honestly, I have never used a QT before just acclimated and released in recently acquired 29g Nano. My original two clowns, watchman gobi and scooter are fine ? added a ROYAL G but lost it in two days same with two cardinals so I've given up adding any new fish for now. Planning to start up a 120 with a 30g fuge and seriously considering what to do after the expense of it all i don't want to screw it up. But when you consider the LUCK? I had with my original occupants without QT it makes me think hmmmmmmmmm? should I tempt it part of me says No. My lfs has been good to me and reasonably priced and stock has been mostly ok ( have had some losses but comped50% on them usually)Then I look at another lfs that their prices are outrageous but been told it was worth it due to them QTing their stock (I would hope that this was true and not just god pr and business practise) I believe from what i read that simple is better if I QT'd.( NO subst,heat limited light low stress) I want to be able to keep mostly dwarf angels, ocellarius clowns, jaws, cardinals,blennies nand chromis. Basically a docile?aggressive community. I can only go with a 10g QT maybe push a 20 (if my wife is in a good mood) but lets think 10 how many fish can I actually Qt at one time?4?5? for a month. one species at a time ? I've read to cycle with fish do they get QT'd 1st. ? as well as with the cleaner crew. I'll await your responses hope I'm not to much of a pain

[Rad3dad]

Size of the display tank would play into the factor of deciding weather to QT or not, for me. A 29 gal would not be hard to dismantle to get to the fish. A fully stocked 125 gal would be a different story. Also, what you would/might be risking that is already in the display would count as well.

QT tanks are temporary, and need frequent partial water changes, to maintain good water perimeters with a heavy load. You can mix species in them, sometimes its better to stock heavy, then have just a pair or trio when dealing with aggressive/territorial fish. That way the bullying gets spread around, rather then one aggressive fish with one main target.

Since it is a temporary situation, your wife may be more accepting to having a few 10 gal tanks set up?? turning them sideways and lining them up doesn't look as cluttered. You may also be lucky enough to be able to borrow some equipment from local clubs or LFS's if your a good customer, lol.

Using fish to cycle a reef tank is sort of outdated. The live rock will accomplish this fine with out them. The clean up crew should really only be added as needed. I think the big cuc's that websites recommend throwing in a new tank are overkill, and most of the critters will die of starvation or by other members of that "package". Wait for the diatoms to bloom and then add some snails. Kind of follow the phases of the aging process of the tank and add the proper janitor for the job as it arises.

[dhboyd1]

I have a 90, 55 and 20 with the 90 six months old, the 55 one year old and the 20 set up as a QT for the last three months. Never used a QT until 2 months ago and never lost a fish. Set up the QT, got it working well added a Tang that I QT'd for 5 weeks. Put the Tang into the 90, 3 days later 7 dead fish all on the same day. Flame Hawk in the 90 is still alive and well. Corals, anemones, shrimp and all inverts healthy as always. Water chemistry is dead on. Only thing I can figure is the Tang had something that killed all the other fish yet was real healthy when I took him out of QT. I won't QT anymore because I never lost any fish until I used one.

[unclejed]

That proved my point...sorry to say. One other thing, I hold to a rule (i derived at from experience) that when I have X amount of fish in the tank and all is well I resist that overwhelming idea of "just one more should do it". I only think of introducing a new fish if one dies.
An aversion I have is to Tangs, I love the color but their thin slime coat makes them so susceptible to ick I have given up on them and don't miss them.

[map95003]

I'm still on the fence on this subject. With my previous FOWLR tank that I had for years I never QT, I had a good relationship with my LFS at the time where I would purchase fish when they come in and leave them there for a few weeks (guess you could say that's QTing). I've had quite a few fish over the years and only lost 2 that I can remember of (powder blue tang and coral beauty angel). Now with my new setup I've decided to also setup a QT tank, except for my first 2 fish I QT everything. The first 2 I added to the fuge area of my sump for a few weeks just incase I needed to get them out I wouldn't have to remove all my LR from the display. The last fish I added was a yellow tang, I left him at the LFS for 2 wks, then I had him in my QT tank for another 3 weeks, everything looked OK...put him in my DT...now I have an outbreak of ICK. Maybe I didn't QT him long enough, who knows...all I'm saying is from my experience it's a lot of work QTing and it's not bullet proof. I will still continue to QT, just wanted to share my recent experience.

[Hosser]

One note to add to this, if the LFS doesnt have seperate holding tanks for fish that have been there for a couple weeks or more then when a new batch of fish in introduced then all that time is out the window. Ive never QTd, never lost a fish, but the only place I buy fish has three completely seperate systems for holding fish. One for treatment upon arrival, one for qting and finally a sale system, each fish stays in each system 2-4 weeks. A customer wont even see the fish till its ready to go home.