[crockett]

is it normal for algae to cover sand bed and should it remain?

[glampka]

Normal - yes. Shouldn't remain. Get a clean-up crew which should take care of the problem.

[Dave5319]

Hi new guy here, My tank is now 1 month old. Its a 35 gal tank with 40 lbs of live sand and 28 lbs of live rock. The rock was added 1 to 2 weeks ago. I tested today and all my readings came back close to zero. My question is; is it now time to start to get fish and if so what are the best non agressive fish to start off with?
My other question is; I thought that when a tank is cycled the nitrate level goes up, how come I'm getting a zero reading? After I put the live rock in my ammonia did spike to 8+ and over the last few days has gone down to zero, the nitrite did go up, but now its also zero. How could my tank cycle so fast? or did it.
Dave

[WorkinMan]

If the live rock was fully cured it will have already been colonized with all the biological bacteria. That is why your nitrate has gone down to 0.
Deep within the confines of the rock there is water that is very low in oxygen, so low there is almost no oxygen at all. It is in these conditions that the bacteria that converts nitrate to harmless nitrogen gas thrive. You should be seeing bubbles coming from the rock. These bubbles are the nitrogen gas that the bacteria is producing.
The reason you saw an ammonia and nitrite spike after adding the live rock was becuase there was some die off (of whatever life was on the rock when you purchased it) that happened between when you purchased it and when you got it home and into your tank. This die off produced an amount of amonia that was too much for your current biological filter to handle, thus the reason for the spike. Now that those levels are back down to 0, it means that the bacterial colonies have increased in numbers to be able to handle the extra bio load that you placed on them when the new live rock was added.
This stuff gets confusing, so the best thing to do it search the net for the nitrogen cycle in saltwater(or marine) tank(or aquarium), and read, read, read. Then repeat daily untill you can spout it in your sleep. Good luck! Hope this helped!

[Fish Of The Steve]

You sound just like me. I really rushed my tank though. I bought my 29gal bio-cube on a sunday, added the live gravel and filled it about 1/2 way with pre-mixed saltwater. I went back the next day, got like 40lbs of live rock that the store had been growing for like a month. I added that, finished topping it off with the rest of the saltwater, and I was back again on Thursday to grab a couple fish. I have had some ups and downs with the tank. I know I lost some fish early on because I rushed it and I added too many fish. Then I added an ARROW CRAB to the tank and that thing ate 2 of my fish and 1 of my shrimp(returned it the next day). Things have mellowed out now with the tank. By the next weekend I was adding soft corals, haven't lost 1 piece of that so I must be doing something right. The snails and hermit crabs do a kick-ass job of cleaning the glass and ground. Look for some pics soon. I just have to get my butt in gear and take them.

Steve

[Danakor]

I would think that if have managed to get your tank down to complete neutral than yes you could add A fish. I agree 100% with everyone who says take your aquarium slow. Slow and Steady = longer life of fish and wild life. As to what type to get damsels are the goldfish of the marine world IMHO. and there are plenty of types to choose from.

[Dave5319]

Thanks Bill, I have been reading alot and I have had a freshwater tank before, so I'm familiar with the ANN cycle. There are no bubbles coming up from my rock at all, there were a few hitch hikers with it, tiny crabs, clams and some kind of reddish plant on the rock that seems to move like a snail and extends itself from time to time. Being new to saltwater after all I have read I thought that as I have monitored the ANN cycle very close I would see a raise in the last process the nitrate, I have not seen a raise in that at all. All readings after almost 30 days of set up are Zero, ph was 8 but now has dropped to 7.8, and salt is 1.022. So I guess what I'm asking, is this normal readings or should I be showing a nitrate reading? Keep in mind that the rock has only been in the tank for almost 2 weeks, before that and from start up I had 40lbs of livesand and still do. The rock was added in 3 phases, the base, the build up, and the tops, all done within a 2 week time frame. Most of the rock was not cured, atleast that is what I was told.
Dave

[WorkinMan]

Hmmmm. Sounds like your cycle may have stalled for some reason. You should have seen some nitrates after the nitrite started dropping if the rock wasn't fully cured. I started cycling with dead base rock and live sand also, but 2 days after after I added my uncured LR I saw a huge nitrate spike. Within a few days it was back down and my rock was bubbling like crazy and still is a week later. If there's no bubbles I'd play it safe and wait for a couple more weeks and keep taking readings. How old is your nitrate test kit?

[Dave5319]

The test kit is only as old as the set up is and that is 1 month. It a marineland Instant ocean kit, with an exp of 2009. I have never heard of the cycle stalling, what would cause that? And how long does that usually last?
You know I did everything by the book, and went to a top notch fish store, so I cannot understand why anything would go wrong.
I would think that and correct me if I'm wrong, as long as my ammonia and nitrite levels are down near zero it would be ok to add a couple of fish. I don't see anything in there that would harm them. I was told when starting up this tank to forget everything I knew about freshwater tanks as this is a whole different world and that the tank will have to sit a min of 6 weeks before adding any low end fish. Then I here stories of people adding fish after only 2 weeks.
I did not want to add any Bio start as I wanted the tank to cycle naturally. So I'm confused as to what to do should I wait or try a few fish and see what happens. You know maybe I missed the cycle, as I was only testing once or possible two times a week as I didn't think everything would happen so fast. As I said I did see the ammonia level go way up, and the nitrite level climb shortly after the LR was added.
Dave

[Danakor]

If you do go ahead and add a fish which i think would be okay, i cannot stress enough how hardy and good going a damsel is. if you did see a spike in ammonia and nitrite even a small one I would say that you say either the beginning or the end of the cycle, nd you are probably in the clear. Get you a cheap damsel (around here they only cost me $2.99 a fish) throw it in and watch it for a week or two see how it acts and such. If nothing goes wrong than you should be in the clear, if the fish starts to act funny then I would look into getting a water conditioner fast. I recommend seachem. make sure that when you go to your LFS that you ask if they offer a trade out program(yes i know its weird). my local fish store does offer such a program, if you don't want to raise your fish anymore they take them back (if they are deemed in acceptable health and you can trade them out or get a store credit or such).

[crazygator]

unless you want to keep the damsels always or don't mind dismanteling you rockwork to remove them i would strongly advise against using them as guinea pigs. not fair to a living thing that you want to call a "pet". it's a common practice i know but this is just my feelings.

[Dave5319]

I have no plan on using any fish as a guinea pig, any fish I put in I plan to keep, this is why I would want a non-aggressive fish. I here there are aggressive and non-aggressive Damsels. Since my tank is a 35G I have to be very selective on the fish I get. I also want a maintance crew, like a shrimp, some snails etc. This is not going to be a reef tank for now. I figure I might depending on size house 4 to 6 fish not including the maintenance crew.
So any suggestion on type of Damsels or other fish, and cleaning crew would be helpful.
Dave

[Danakor]

with damsels it really comes down to what color you want. 90% are semi-aggressive, 5% non aggressive and 5% aggressive. Also if you don't see a damsel that you want you can try some gobies they are not quite as hardy as damsels but they are still pretty hardy. I wasn't saying use it as a guinea pig, simply saying its better to get a fish that is $3 that you like and have it die because of a bad test or two than to go drop $30 on a fish and have it die due to bad tests.

[MattieFingaz]

I've got 4 green chromis damsels in my tank that are super cool. They all school together and get along great with my 2 clowns and sailfin tang with absolutely no aggression at all. Sometimes the other fish will school with them. They cost a small amount more than your traditional damsels, (about $8 here at LFS where others are $5)

Good luck to you folks...I was new here a couple months ago and couldn't have gotten to where I am at now without the support I got here.

Mattie

[Dave5319]

Danakor, I was not saying that you said that I would use them as a Guinea Pig, that was
Crazygator I was replying to. As I understand it I will not be able to put any real high end fish in the tank for some time as it will take awhile for the bio to really take hold and stabilize.
I would not want to spend alot on a fish at this time anyways.
Crazygator brought up a good point, what does happen when a fish dies and ends up out of reach behind the rocks? I would hate to have to move all that rock, and put stress on the other fish to get the body; are there any tricks to it? Or is that the way it is, no getting around it.
Dave

[crazygator]

not trying to imply that you would use them as guinea pigs, it's just a common practice that appalls me for some reason. felt the same way when i did freshwater and people used guppies or goldfish, just doesn't seem right. yes the green chromis is an awsome schooling fish that enjoys everyone in the tank. and as far as a death goes you can try blowing water toward the dead spot and dislodge it but that is hard as hell to do. sometimes you just gotta tear down.

c.gator

[rlcline76]

I pretty much agree with everything written here (and picked up a few tips along the way). MattieFingaz is right about the chromis. They are inexpensive and peaceful. Whatever you get, make sure it will be as non-aggressive as possible or it might be the only fish you have in there!
As far as dead bodies go, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. Dead bodies can cause stress as well.

[Dave5319]

Since all my test were saying that I could support life I went and bought 3 damsels.
A neon blue one, a blue yellow tail, and a silver damsel. First day all was fine, second day the blue yellow tail damsel went MIA. I figured its just hiding and the other 2 were doing just fine. We did notice that the neon blue damsel was at times picking on that fish. It is now 4 days missing not a trace, I looked with out moving the rock for it, but I can't see a thing. There are alot of hiding places behind the rock as well in the front. The other 2 fish dodge behind the rock all the time but always coming out to check things out. At feedings they do very well.
Ok not knowing these fish that well is it common for a fish to hide for days?
I would hate to have to move 28lbs of rock to find a 1" fish that could just be hiding. I have been keeping a very close watch on the ammonia level thinking if the fish is dead it would shoot it right up, but all readings are very normal. If the fish is dead, I would rather just keep and eye on the chemistry of the tank before I move this rock.
Any Ideas?
Dave

[rlcline76]

Fish can hide for awhile, especially if they are stressed out, but I have never had one hide for that long. I have a tendency to do regular fish counts, and if a fish stays hidden for more than 2 feedings (doesn't even poke his fishy head out) something is usually up...fin up.

[Dave5319]

2 week ago I bought 5 snails, 5 crabs, and a sand sifting star. Now keep in mind my tank is only 6 weeks old and not alot of algae in there yet. My snails are all dying off, the hermit crabs from what I can see are still alive, but not moving much, but they never really did, and the star is alive still. Am I right in thinking that I need to let my tank mature longer and grow some algae before really adding a cleaning crew? I know the star will eat from the sand, but I believe the snails live on just the algae and there is very little of that in there and what is in there is a redish/purple algae on the rocks
Dave