[ffd649]

Hello. I apologize in advance for the long post, but I am not sure how much information I need to give. I am new to saltwater aquariums and I am having some trouble. I have a few questions that hopefully someone can answer for me. First I'll give you little background on what I have and have done.

I have a 95 gallon custom acryllic tank that is 48" long x 30" tall x 13" deep. I bought the tank used from a friend. I set it up in January with dechlorinated, home mixed tap water (I did not know it was better to use r/o until after I had set it up) and 100 pounds of live rock. I have a pro clear 125 wet/dry sump, and a seaclone 100 protein skimmer in the sump. I also have a Coralife 48 Inch Aqualight W/ 4-65W Straight Pin Base And 4-3/4W Lunar Blue-Moon-Glow LED Lamps.

I let everything cycle for almost 3 weeks and took a water sample to the store for testing. The sample came back good so I bought a couple of fish (Coral Beauty Angelfish and a Nemo clownfish) and a serpent starfish. I also bought a cleanup crew of 10 turbo snails, 10 hermit crabs, and 10 small snails. I had hair algae on the live rock and brownish algae on the walls.

The cleanup crew did a great job and cleaned it all up, but about a week later all the snails died as well as the serpent starfish. I took a water sample to the store and they said it was still good so I bought more turbo snails, a sand sifter starfish (I think that's what it's called), and two emerald crabs. I bought 2 more emerald crabs about a week later, along with a blue tang, a fire shrimp, and a frogspawn coral.

The shrimp and the coral both died within a day. I got a new shrimp, 2 sand sifting gobies, and a pink wrasse (they gave me store credit for the coral so I got more fish instead of another coral). The algae was still growing on the walls and I was starting to see minor amounts of bubble algae on the rock. Throughout all of this my water has tested ok for ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and salinity. Today, the only thing I have left in my tank is the coral beauty, pink wrasse, sand sifting starfish, and two hermit crabs. Everything else has died.

Again, I tested the water after every fish died and it came back zero for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite everytime. The guy at the store told me that this could be caused by high copper levels in the tank. I tested that and it is zero. He also said that it may be from outside pollutants on my hands when I reach into the tank.

This is where the question comes in. He told me to buy a charcoal canister filter and run it for a week to remove any outside pollutants from the water and the live rock. He also said to trash the current sand I have in the bottom and replace it with new sand.

Finally, here's the question. Will any of this stuff that he told me work? Can anyone think of another reason why everything is dying? I'm kind of leary about buying new fish now because I don't want to waste anymore money on a fish that is only going to live 2 weeks (which is the average life expectancy in my tank right now). Thank you for all of your help.

[Taras1]

First, break-down and get your own test kits and RO/DI system. Test your water. It's nice that the LFS tests for you, but in the long run DIY.

Post your water parameters.

[glampka]

When you moved the tank did you keep the old sand? It's possible that if you used the old sand that some toxins in the sand bed may have been stirred up & have led to the demise.

[rlcline76]

Be leary, be very leary! Don't buy anything else until you can figure out what is going on in your tank. My first thought was salinity, but no. Then you performed a copper test because copper can do bad things to invertebrates. I would have thought that if it was copper then your starfish would be dead. Hmmm, maybe you need a nanny cam on your tank. You could get quite a few goodies off of 100 lbs of live rock. Are you checking your water quaility daily or just as things go south?
As far as if a carbon filter will work: maybe, if the problem is due to "pollutants". I really wish that it was easier to come across a LFS that has some sort of soul and would not sell and sell and sell when they know there is a problem.
Hopefully, you are using RO/DI water by now. I am a little surprised, or maybe I am still too naive, that your readings came back all well and good if you started with tap water. If you have algae, and you still have an algae problem, I am guessing that it is benefitting from phosphates and nitrates in your system.
Do you have another saltwater fish supplier in your town? That is my first question. You might want to buy your own testing supplies. It can get costly, but you have already paid quite a bit in livestock lately and it might be worth checking out things yourself at this point and then keeping up with it religiously just to be sure. Your supplier has done quite well for himself lately. I do not know if I would trash the sand yet. Wait for others to reply. If you do end up trashing the sand, don't buy it at the LFS store you've been using!

[ffd649]

I have checked the water levels myself a few times and I have gotten good ammonia, nitrate, and nitrate readings. My phosphate level was between .05 and 1, which he said could be the cause of my snails dying. I did a 20% water change with d/i water and shortly after that is when everything else started dying. The phosphate level after the water change was 0. Should I buy new water? If I do buy new water, what about the Live rock. Could it be toxic?

[rlcline76]

What is your test brand, if you do not mind me asking?
I don't know, something smells fishy here...or maybe I have trust issues. For the right price I might be able to supply you with the name of a good hitman (Just kidding, please do not send this to the local pd, I have enough issues).
I have not heard of phosphate releasing dead snails. I like my LFS guy OK, but I don't always think he knows what he is talking about. Just depends.
Maybe someone needs to smarten me up.

[rlcline76]

Allow me to edit. I misread. The phosphates and snails. If you have phosphates, you are going to have algae, especially green hair. That is a good reason to have snails because they at least keep the appearance under control, and if you are lucky (and it doesn't sound like you are), they should keep it from becoming too much of a problem.
Like I said, something sounds uber wrong here.
Sorry about the misread, I haven't had enough coffee and the dust storms of west Texas is causing serious migraines.
Where are you in Texas?

[Danakor]

something i did not see in your equipment is a heater or a chiller, perhaps your water temp is causing issues. I had a similar problem where i just had things starting to die and managed to save them just by throwing a heater in the tank, the local temperature dropped without a warning down to about 40 degrees. It also might be this fish store, as someone said, if they continue to sell to you with knowing your having a problem with your tank quit going there find a new place.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

In all of this did you use a quarintine tank? Maybe you brought something home from the lfs you didnt think you were buying.

[mtfabel]

After reading all that, I noticed that no one said that maybe your tank never actually cycled. 3 weeks is not really enough time to cycle a tank. Thats not to say that it cant, its just better to go almost 2 months. I have came across several other posts in here where that ended up being the problem. I wish I had more info for you and I hope you the best.

P.S. Please do not add anything else until you have 100% confirmed and fixed the problem.

[rstroede]

I would say that everyone has made good sugestions. In my nano tank I put the live rock in for just short of two months before it cycled. Then I bought my first two corals. I test the water 2-3 times a week looking for the cycle to go and then stabalize before I place anything new in the tank. I also have two LFS that I now I will not buy from. The third is the only one that I will buy from. It is a dead give away when you go in and see dead salt water fish that a almost decayed not to buy from them. I would sugest to let the live rock do a complete cycle and test, test and test. See the cycle for yourself so you know what it looks like. Then think about adding something else. I would also recommend a 10%-20% water change weekly, and I use only RO water.
Randy

[rlcline76]

Absolutely!

[ffd649]

I forgot to mention the heater. My water temp is 78 to 80 degrees. The test kit that I have been using when I test the water myself is the Doc Wellfish saltwater kit plus a phosphate test kit that I bought separately (I can't remember the brand name). Nativeman, I never used a quarantine tank. That's a good suggestion though and I will from now on. I do have my reservations about this LFS. There is another store I can go to but I haven't been there yet because it is farther away. I guess i'll be making that journey from now on though. Rlcline, I am in North Dallas. Where are you? Anyone know any trustworthy LFS's in Dallas?

My plan is to go and get new water (r/o this time) and sand. I am going to clean out the tank and basically start over. Should I replace the liverock too or do you think I would be ok just letting it cycle for a while? Does anyone have any other suggestions that I can do? Thank you all for your help.

[rlcline76]

ffd649,
I am in El Paso. I am happy to hear that you do not rely on the Rio Grande for your water source, that would compound your problem. Can you afford your own RO/Di versus buying it from someone else? Glampka and I are using MightyMite RO/DI from www.airwaterice.com Products and answers for your water treatment needs.. If I remember correctly, it puts out about 50 gallons daily. It is $99+ replacement filters. I am using mine for a 20 gallon. There should be something affordable for those who have tanks under 100 gallons. Look into it if it gets too costly to use someone else's filtrated water.
I keep thinking that you shouldn't have to start completely over, especially if you are the original owner of both the live sand and rock. Seems like a headache for you and your bank account. How many weeks have you had this tank up and running? Is the sand and rock originally yours? You could always just ride it out. Start doing your water changes with RO/DI, keep track of the water quality and get where you need to be in time.

[jvharding]

Water Changes forgive our sins! If you sinned at all. Keep your stuff it will work itself out. Time heals all things, hang in there your getting great feed back.

[c-c]

Sorry to hear of your losses
Just some other ideas:

Acclimation issues: What is your method of acclimation to the tank? Many fish, coral and shrimp need a very slow and careful acclimation period to new water conditions (sudden changes of pH, temperature, or salinity can be fatal) You may want to ask the store for a sample of their water to test their parimeters so you can match theirs.

Water quality issues: Many LFS use copper safe in their water at the store. The Petco where I live uses it on almost all their fish. Copper safe will kill corals, and inverts. Did you put the water from the bag in your tank when you introduced new fish?

Compatibility issues: Some animals are very aggressive feeders and drive away all the others in order to keep available food resources for themselves. Coral Beauty may be aggressive compared to the peace loving gobies. I had MAJOR compatiblity issues when I started out and lost a lot of fish. Watch very closely to see if the aggressive ones are picking on the slower more peaceful tankmates.

Hardiness issues: You may want to start with certain fish and invertebrates who can take all sorts of competition and different conditions of water quality and lighting and stay away from less hardy or more sensitive to aggression or varying environmental conditions that need special attention. I was told to start with humbug damsels and the blue devil damsels, so got three of each and they chased each other to exhaustion until only the largest humbug was left.

Supplier issues: Feeding practices: Ask to watch the fish eat to see if it is a good eater. If the LFS is "anxious" to sell you fish they should be obliged to honor that request. Also feeding them right before you bag them will help "hold them over" during the next several days as they acclimate to new conditions in your tank.

Patience issues: After all the snails died and you went back with a sample of water and got emerald crabs, you might have been better off waiting longer to allow more cycling before you bought that blue tang, fire shrimp and frogspawn coral.

After you install the sea water, live rock, and sand, some say you are to let the installed equipment run normally for at least 8 weeks - even better 12 to 24 weeks --before stocking with fish. The reason they say is the fact that water quality changes over time. As the time goes by, the various decomposing bacteria that are vital for the balance of the system build up and stabilize.

To the measure that we discover this balance we discover the beauty and fascination of captive care.