[O-Man]

Greetings, all!!

Well, i've finally got my new tank set up and so far, at least, no leaks!!! By 'set up', i mean that everything is in place, pump is running, salt is being mixed and all (pictures to follow..). It's a 95gal RH wave tank, with a mag drive (?) pump, skimmer, heater and all down below in the sump.

My questions are this:

- i've got 4 bags of live sand, plus base rock (old system yrs ago, so definitely not 'live', but good to build on, i hope!). Can i just add the sand and maybe some live rock w/ my base, to cycle the tank? Just keep checking levels, i'm assuming?

- i was lazy and did not buy distilled water to fill the tank. My local guy (okay, he's 45 min away, so not really local), mentioned how the salt will remove chlorine from the water, and how he uses city water in his store. He's got great tanks, so i'm thinking he does something more to his water, such as RO/DI setup. Do i/should i consider the same? I have city water (more like suburban CT water, not real city water!

Guess that's it for now. Thanks in advance for all the wonderful advice from everyone! Pictures to follow!!

Oliver

[rlcline76]

Oliver,
I think this LFS, not so LFS, is setting you up. Distilled or RO/DI (RO/DI being the best). You can get too much crap out of tap water (nutrients for your algae and worse).

Becky

[Danakor]

You can get away with tap water...you just have to be patient. and you have to find a good source. grab a gallon jug fill it up, test the water the day you get it, if its high in ammonia or nitrate or nitrites from the start throw away the water. if it passes the first test try again in 3 days, if it passes the second test then you have a good source. be careful city water plants like to add cleaning chemicals like chorlamine and ammonia and chlorine. these three chemicals alone kill more fish and bacteria then anything else in a tank. Now that being said even if your tap water is good to go and everything DO NOT PUT water that you made that day into the tank. always let your water 'age'. let it sit somewhere where it can get to room temperature and stay at room temperature for a day or two.

[pogodzib]

Not to try to scare you or anything, but in addition to the previously mentioned chemicals, your tap water may also have phosphates, copper, etc... that can does not dissipate over time and can kill corals or cause algae outbreaks. Although there are some people that are fortunate that their tap water doesn't have a significant amount of unknown chemicals in it and have great looking reef tanks using tap water, RO/DI is by far the best option. Why would someone want to take the chance of loosing expensive corals or have to dealing with picking hair algae out constantly. If your tap water contains copper in it, not only could any corals you want to keep die, the live rock could become garbage as well. With that being said, since your tank already has been setup with tap water, I would add your rock and sand bed as if you used RO/DI water. More than likely your tap water doesn't have enough chemicals in it that it would hurt your tank long term. You may be more prone to an algae outbreak though. All future water added to your tank during water changes and topoffs should ideally be RO/DI (best) or RO water so you don't keep adding bad chemicals into your tank.

I would not use your old sand if it has been in a tank before for any length of time. Old sand usually has a bunch of detrius in it that can cause major algae outbreaks if reused. Find some other sand to use. Don't buy the expensive "live sand" in a bag. All it contains is bacteria, not the critters that you really want. It is a waste of money. All it does is help speed up the cycle by a week or two max. As for your base rock, you can add that to your tank right away along with any additional live rock you want to purchase. The LR that you purchase will have critters in it to seed your old base rock and sand.

[Danakor]

MY only thing with RO/DI water is that it is not readily available in my area and getting the setup to make my own is just really not worth it. Yes I love my fish and I will love my corals but there is no point in me spending $300 on a system that pumps out 50 gallons of pure water a day when my tank is only 29 gallons. I am not going to say that RO/DI is the end all be all of the marine world, but I will say would be nice to have, my tap water has some chemical in it that breaks down into Amonia so I am currently searching for a better water source.

BTW there are some places online that will sell you live sand with a few live critters tyo go with it. The guy i got my LS from included a fuge set up with it for free. Just do your research and don't just look for the cheapest thing.

[rlcline76]

Danakor, Glampka and I are using the MightMite from www.airwaterice.com Products and answers for your water treatment needs. it is a unit better for for small systems (I only have a 20 gal). It is $99 per unit (about $30 per replacement filter), and makes 1-2 gallons an hour. I found it was cheaper than buying the water. It can be hooked into the kitchen sink out from an outdoor spigot. A Lot of people use trashcans to collect the water, I use a 5 gallon jug, since I do not need anything big.

[lynnvangsnes]

Check out this site for RO/DI info.
Melevsreef.com - Welcome!
When one has a RO system, it only makes the RO water when you use the tap. There is considerable waste water during the process. This place sells the systems for around 169.00 I believe. This unit can make 55 gal RO/day. Yes, some systems have a reservoir that collects and keeps the reservoir full as you use it.

[pogodzib]

Danakor - A lot of the "hard core" reefers say that you need to get the expensive RO/DI units that have clear filter canister, a pressure gauge, etc... to get 0 TDS. Although they are nice, you can get a cheap 6 stage ebay unit with a water faucet hookup for drinking water for around $100+shipping. The main thing is to get one with a refillable DI canister. They produce near 0 TDS and do almost as good of a job. The worst part about them is that they have a horizontal DI canister instead of the vertical canister and you cannot see what your filters look like without removing the canister housing. For a little over $100, you don't need to worry about getting algae outbreaks or killing your expensive fish or corals (of which can be way more expensive than the RO/DI unit) because of adding poor tap water.

[rlcline76]

But we are not trying to gang up on you or convert you...or are we?

[pogodzib]

I started typing my comments before the other ones were posted. I just got distracted and it took me too long to finish I guess.

[starfishlover]

I got RO/DI unit on ebay for $145 including shipping. It has reserve tank and faucet fits under sink. 100gal per day.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

http://www.livestockusa.org/WATERFILTER.html.......Here is a link to a diy water filter that costs 45$'s to build and fill. It removes all of the chlorine all amonia and heavy metals. I use it in two salt water tanks and two fresh watr tanks and never had an algea outbreak or a dead fish in any of them.

[Danakor]

I am in no way saying that You shouldn't use RO. I am just saying that if you have less than a 45 gallon tank then there is really no point in going out and putting $100 down on a system that you will use maybe once a week.

Me personally I think that there is enough people out there trying to say you HAVE to have this or that to run a successful saltwater tank. To be 100% true the only things you need to have a successful salt water tank is to have water, salt, and a filter. Everything else just makes our lives as fish keepers easier. I come on here daily, and I have seen many many many people recommend a sump, and a chiller, and an ro system, and a protein skimmer and this or that. Some times people actually go into the alternative, most of the time its just hey this makes life easier.

Not dissing anyone here or anything I am just saying that if you make things too complicated you actually start turning people off from the hobby.

As far as ganging up on me or trying to 'convert' me, well ganging up on me is fine i have no problem with it my skin is pretty thick. Converting me? well that would be kinda hard seeing as how the only reason I don't run an RO system is because I have such a small tank. (wait till i get my dream tank of 150 gallon). I do apologize about the long post but want to make sure I cover all basis.

On a side note I will look into that DIY filter as it seems pretty easy to do...

[rlcline76]

I was just kidding, Danakor. No one here can make you do anything that you do not want to. I see a lot of posts in response to you not wanting to spend an arm and a leg on RO. That's why we shared where we got our systems.

It is too early in the morning for me to have this much turmoil.

Becky

[rlcline76]

O-Man, you will have to make your own informed decision. I have had a couple of cups of coffee since my last post in this thread. As with anything, just do some research before making major decisions. My husband did the tap water thing. Now I am fighting aglae, cyanobacteria and the highre nitrates and phosphates which are interconnected. It is hard to measure how many fish we might have lost due to tap water quality. I made the switch to RO/DI after doing a ton of reading on the overall consequences. I do not know CT city/suburb water qualities. I only can speak for El Paso's.
I do not trust LFS on a good day. I like my LFS guy but I never rely on his opinion alone. Some of these smaller based LFS operations do not necessarily make a ton of profit. So it is easy to see where they might cut a few corners. It is possible to keep fish in tap water for awhile, but LFS does not care too much about what happens to the fish once you pay for it and none of the fish in their stores are meant to be permanent residents in the store. So what is it to them? Not much. After doing all of the reading I have done, I would say that 99% of everything on the Web pushes for RO/DI as the ideal. Some will say that it is possible to have a healthy tank with tap water BUT that it could prove ruinous in the long run.
Good luck.

[jimw369]

I did what Pogodzib did. I bought a RO/DI system off Ebay for about $120s (shipping included). I also bought a TDS meter so I can test any water I use just to make sure it is of good quality. Owning a RO/DI unit was more a question of convenience and having it at my fingertips when I wanted than it was a cost effective issue. While others may be having success with other sources of water I will have to error on the safe side.

[pogodzib]

Originally Posted by jimw369

I also bought a TDS meter

That is the only problem with this hobby. There is always something else to buy as the next step. Maybe the people like Danakor are doing things the cheap way. You MAY lose some fish and corals, get so used to pulling out hair algae that you end up pulling out your own hair, and ruin all of your live rock because your tap water contained copper or some other terrible chemical -OR- maybe everything will end up perfect and your tank becomes one of the nicest looking tanks out there with using nothing but tap water. One never knows. I didn't take the chance.

BTW - I bought a TDS meter too and have thought about buying a booster pump.

[pogodzib]

O-Man - I should probably be apologizing to you for dragging your initial post into a long, dragged out conversation about what type of water is really necessary.

And please post some pics when you get a chance. I'd love to see your 95 gal wave tank

[jimw369]

O-Man! I like that! I feel bad you probably got some lousy advice from your lfs. OK, lets move on. If you can afford it, BUY an inexpensive ro/di system. Do not look at skimmers, sumps, reactors etc. as just items you use once in a while. EVERYTIME you look into your tank and like what you see, you are using your ro/di system. I know that someone that bought a 92 gal wave tank wants it to look good w/crystal clear water. Go distilled at walmart if you have to 65 cents a gal (thats what I originally did) or buy a tds meter( $20 on ebay ) and find a machine you can fill jugs or buckets for 25 cents a gal.
It is best to error on the safe side IMO. Have fun with it. Great thread! This what makes RB the best source for info!