[GOT 2 FEED THE PISH]

Hello,
I'm new to Salt water tanks and new to reef builders.
75gl Tank, Wet/Dry filtration, 500gph pump, protine skimmer,
Tap water w/ water conditioner California...I was told this would be fine from a great tropical fish store.
60lbs Live Sand, 20lbs Live rock so far.
Entire set up is only 5 Days Old.
Perfect Salinity 1.021
Perfect PH
Nitrate is perfect
Nitrite is Perfect
Aqalinity is Perfect.
Water at 78degrees
Also added live bacteria

Intorduced 7 damsels 2 days after set up and all swam healthy, then ate.
2 died the same night 4-5hours after introduction and the others by the next morning..Nobody was fighting.
Started to loose color and then sank to the bottom and died 1 by 1.

Back to the fish store and I was told I needed to keep fish in the tank for it to not loose and bacteria...so I tried 4 more.
And the same dieing happened.
The small snails which came with the rock were healthy and are now dead a day later.
Any advise? Should I do a partial water change and try again?

[kolokefalo]

hrmmm this is a toughie but Ill try to give a read on a couple possible culprits. I am assuming when you fished the dead ones out you didnt notice any current in the aquarium so I would rule out a malfunctioning power head releasing charge into the water.

Was the live rock purchased "uncured" or shipped via the mail? Although you are showing Nitrite is perfect I am assuming the die off from the rock flooded the tank with ammonia.

I am not sure why lfs told you you needed damsels in a tank with reef rock. The die off from the rock and the curing will cycle the tank well without the addition of damsels.

A few more details will bee helpful:

ammonia reading?
Live rock and sand from where?
The symtoms you are describing of the fish just losing color and falling to the bottom is usually a acclimation problem. (although you mention it happened on the 3rd day which is vexing)
Was the Wet/Dry new or cleaned before installation?

One ver remote possibility was lack of oxygen. A powerful wet dry with live rock as well can cause low oxygen levels. While this isnt eough to kill fish and is easily remedied by a little surface turbulence possibly with the ammonia spiking and the lack of oxygen it kind of created a perfect storm kind of thing. However, that is just spitballing.

[GOT 2 FEED THE PISH]

The LIVE ROCK was "cured" from my local Torpical Fish Store.
Amonia reading is at 0...or was a day ago.
The fish started dying 4-5hours after introducing them...and then at about 7 hours the others died.
Only the Tiny Snails lived past 3 days
Live sand was Name brand, wish I new what brand.
There is a current in the aquarium from the return but not visable to the eye.
Wet/Dry was New.

So, No Damsels needed?

Should I just keep circulating for a few more days b/4 trying again?

Thanks!

[rstroede]

I would suggest that you wait at least a month for the tank to complete the cycle. With mine it took about that long but I did not use the piece of shimp that has been suggested on this site. I waited about a half a month more than I added a coral. Did not add a fish till tank was almost 4 months old. I wait about a month and a half before placing one item in my reef display tank. Use a small 8 gal Oceanic Bio cube to quarantine my fish. Do this 2-3 weeks before adding to my 14 gal Biocube display tank. Maybe I am just overly cautious tho.
Randy

[dfurbee]

you might want to take your tank water to the lfs and have it tested. My inhabitants kept dying, and when the lfs test my water, the pH was 7.4!! My test kit said it was 8.2.

[GOT 2 FEED THE PISH]

Thank you all!
Just tested all again and all is good.

PH-8.2
ALKALINITY- 280
NIRITE- 0.5
NITRATE- 20

SALINITY- 1.022

AMONIA- 0

Will try and take water in to test see if they get something different.

Is it ok to cycle the tank for a couple of weeks with Live sand/ Live Rock and no fish???

[jpmwjm]

Almost all fish will die if used to cycle a tank. This used to be standard practice by many to cycle a tank. Now though, most use LR only, or a piece of raw shrimp to start and excelerate the cycle. Any fish you don't want to take a chance of sacrificing should not be added until at around four to six weeks. You might consider starting first with a clean-up crew. You will likely see a diatom algae outbreak within the last two weeks of your cycle.

[Krazy]

adding 7 fish to any new tank is very likely to cause problems, the bio-load cant take such an increase at once...

[marciemp]

I have read many times here that live fish should NOT be used to cycle a tank. Live rock will cycle the tank it is too hard on the fish to suffer through the cycle. Any fish that do survive will have damage to their gills. If your tank is new the ammonia should spike, then the nitrite usning the live rock alone. You might need more live rock, or you can add a piece of raw shrimp like someone else said, and then don't add any fish until after the cycle, and then add them slowly over time.

Our marine tank is second hand so it was already cycled but I learned the hard way about the nitrogen cycle and how the biological filter becomes established and should be fully established before any fish are added but killing my daughters 2 little goldfish after just putting them in a new tank. I had no idea before but boy have I learned a lot now! I read it takes 3-6 weeks, the best thing to do is test the water, watche the ammonia rise and then fall, then the nitrite will rise and then fall, and after that the tank is cycled. Tests for ammonia dn nitrite should ALWAYS be zero, and nitrate should be as close to zero as possible.

[GOT 2 FEED THE PISH]

So it sounds like the LFS was wrong in telling me to cycle damsels. Thanks for all of your info.
The Live Rock I have was Cured. Will that make a difference in the cycling process?
There has been no Amonia Spike...5days after adding live rock, and trying Damsels.

I'm being patient but want to make sure all is ok!

Only 20lbs for 75gal. Just to start. I will be adding more within the next week or so.

Instead of using a dead shrimp to cycle can I use a DEAD Damsel!!!!?

[rstroede]

From everything that I have heard and read it recommends 1-2 lbs per gallon. I started with 15 lbs of live rock in a 14 gal tank. I let them sit for about a half a month after I saw the cycle settle down. Then I add a small clean-up crew, and 2 mushrooms. I let them cycle for a moth and a half, and then added a single fish, let that cycle for a month and a half. Then about a month ago (again on my month and a half cycle time I added a Zoo. which is where I sit right now. Itching to add something more, but insisting on waiting this extra time. But I seem to be over cautious from what I have head. I to want to do this right my first reef.
Randy

[jpmwjm]

If you already have a dead damsel leave it in the tank it will do the same thing as the raw shrimp.

[Six-line Wrasse]

1. If you do not detect ammonia after 5 days of your live rock being in your tank, I would imagine it was cured live rock. Cured live rock is already cycled rock. That means you do not have to wait for it to re-cycle like you would be uncured live rock. You should be fine with adding an actual live fish.

2. 20lbs. of live rock in a 75 gal. tank should be more than enough to maintain two small (less than 2") damselfish. This wouldn't be the cause of your fish death. The over-loading of the bio-load which is what would happen with 7 damselfish would however most likely be the culprit.

3. About adding more live rock. Unless you're absolutely positive the live rock is fully cured and you never expose it to air, I would wait until you add another fish. Uncured live rock will have the same effect as would adding too many fish. Get at least 50+ lbs. of live rock in your tank and with an ammonia and nitrite reading of 0ppm and nitrates >5ppm. When you get these parameters you can safely add one fish per week and a half.

4. As for the dead shrimp, you can leave it in there or take it out. I would take the dead damselfish out.

[Bonez]

5 days isn't even long enough to dissolve the salt you mixed!!!


Cycles take at least 2 weeks, and that's jump starting it with a raw shrimp!

[rdo3]

well should i buy the fish or shrimp

[goby1kanobe]

I too am having problems without much explanation.
My son had had this tank since January and everything went beautifully.
55 gallon,
Cured live rock
agracrete caves and arches
We decided to go to the next step recommended by GARF and order their GRUNGE which is supposed to be like live mud with lots of good bacteria.
We had had our H20 tested about 8 times and all the parameters and fish had been great! No losses!
It has been 10 days since we added the GRUNGE and
Last Friday-our chromis & Dory started acting funny and quivering in the upper Left hand corner of the tank-Almost like a seizure and skidding on surfaces and bottom of tank.
On Saturday we took a H20 sample to the lfs and the gentleman that did the test said our PH was too low. (He said this can happen after the good bacteria kicks in and is working too well)
We bought a mix of calcium and were told to add 1.5 oz every day x 5 days then ? every other day? don't exactly remember.
Sunday,John did a partial H20 change after mixing the salt. He did not let it sit for 24 hours. I was concerned that it was too strong and would hurt more than help. Plus, maybe unsettle the Ph we were trying to balance.
Dory was covered in white dots and bumps that were actually raised and you could see them under the skin. She started slowing down but still eating. I think he wanted to do something.
I had read that if you keep the water pristine-a fish night overcome ick on it's own.
Monday, she didn't eat much and we moved her to a qt tank and started Coppersafe hopefully to help with what we suspected was ick. I felt we had nothing to lose.
Tuesday morning, Dory seemed to be paralyzed. Moved only her eyes, side fins and tail was stiff took a little food.
1 chromis was dead too. The littlest one.
Today Wednesday, she died late this morning-again appeared paralyzed. We took water from the main tank to the lfs and he said the pH was fine but we had ammonia and something else and we needed to do a partial H20 change.
Now, this PM we have another missing chromis??? The bicolor blenny is eating well but still skidding across the sandy surfaces pretty forcefully.
Where do these fish go if they die???? Why can't we see them in the tank?
This is upsetting because we had been doing so well with our H20 and no deaths that were related to conditions.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Kannotfindthegobyeither:' (