[Lowej82]

any1 ever use the bio-spira its a jump start for the cycle, I set up my tank with 30lbs of LS and 7 lbs of LR let run for a couple days then added this bio-spira,
I added this and YOU MUST add fish or something WITHIN a 24-36 hour time frame no sooner no later, I added 2 percula clowns,a couple shrimp, and 2 fire goby's, plus a few of the clean up crew........... lost nothing!! I did how ever do a 10% water change every other day I think it was 2 weeks in and had no nitrite or nitrates and very little ammonia!!!

So what do all the pplwho know what there typn about think about this type of jump start?

Put it this way after adding the bio-spira about 30 hrs later the lfs sold and gave me a no ? ask refund for 7 days on about $150 worth of livestock (with water sample)
knowing that my tank was less than 7 days old
Patience ? Do you have kids? lol I lost mine long time ago!!

Patience That is

BIO-SPIRA $27.00 <<< all they patience you need any1 ever use the bio-spira or something like that its a jump start for the cycle, I set up my tank with 30lbs of LS and 7 lbs of LR let run for a couple days then added this bio-spira (i belive is what it was called I can find out excatly if someone needs it done)
anyhow I added this and you must add fish or something within 24-36 hour time frame no sooner no later, I added 2 percula clowns,a couple shrimp, and 2 fire goby's, plus a few of the clean up crew........... lost nothing!! I did how ever do a 10% water change every other day I think it was 3 weeks in and had no nitrite or nitrates and very little ammonia put it this way after adding the bio-spira about 30 hrs later the lfs sold and gave me a no ? ask refund for 7 days on about $150 worth of livestock (with water sample)

Patience ? Do you have kids? lol I lost mine long time ago!!

Patience That is

all though ive heard ppl say that you should start out with LR & LS and be patient which is key in this obsession aint it? I would definatly use the bio-spira on any new tank I do, how ever this was my first experince with a salt water tank and BIO-SPIRA so take it how it how you like

[Lowej82]

SORRY FOR THE SCREW UP !! ANYHOW it was a water change every 3rd day and 1 to2weeks before all was good (test wize) also I belive my LR was cured had been in lfs tanks for awhile and was only out of water under 15 min till i got home migt have helped out might not have

[NATIVEVAMAN]

does salifert make a test strip for bio-spira?Noooooooooo."If you cant test for it dont put it in your tank."NOTHING good ever happens quickly in a reef tank". If you cant learn patience now in the beggining what are you going to do when you have a real problem?

[glampka]

IMO - you don't rush nature. Doing a water change every 3rd day tells me it is required because something is getting out of hand, like ammonia or nitrites. I don't trust anything that is sold in a bottle that you know requires special treatment. You don't know how long it's been since it was made so it might not be any good. Think about the bacterias - they need either ammonia, nitrite & oxygen to survive - how does that happen in a sealed bottle? Guess I'm just skeptical about these magic potions they sell that supposedly allow people to just throw a tank together in a matter of hours without regard to the natural process.

[Lowej82]

All I was saying is that it worked for me with no problems so FAR as long as you get the bioload up within the time frame. As far as when it was made i if i remember correct it was like Budwieser came wit born on date(and must be kept cold) also like budWIESER. The 10% 3 gallon water change was just something I came up with sense I read that water changes more than likely help cut down on levels if any was there. My fish never acted stressed or anything no hunger strike, never acted funny, THEY ACTUALLY LIVED!!

I expected to get some reply's saying not to rush and you cant rush!! But when its 27 bucks verse 6 weeks and the lfs feels confident or (just stupid) enough to give a %100 cash or store credit if any of your livestock dies for any reason within 7 days of purchase. The only thing to lose in my case was time how ever I got lucky I guess

I came across a thread labeled patience or something like that figured since this
BIO-SPIRA was newer. Also a topic that I havent came across yet within the threads and figured it would turn into a pretty good debate

Being ppl who have used giving all the pros, if any other than the jump start effect.
And I figured they would be those who know what they are really doing who would say WAIT PATIENCE IS THE ONLY KEY TO OPEN THE DOOR OF SUCSESS IN THE OBSESSION
Please if have used BIO-SPIRA post your thoughts on it

[Lowej82]

also I did this on july-02 a little over a month ago only had 1 spike ( left town for a weekend (last weekend) had mom do feeding) since tank wasnt that astablished figured it would lack a good food source for the weekend. NEVER AGAIN WILL I MAKE THAT MISTAKE!! I once read somewhere only 1 person should be in charge of feedings......... and yet what did I do

[cappy290]

I will admit when I started my tank i used bio-spira(friend helping me with the tank told me to get this stuff) I used it and still let my tank go for some time before I put anything in the tank. Everything still good with the tank and that was six months ago, I will admit that i have had some high nitrates but i think that was from over feeding the fish. When i do my bigger tank i will be using this product again, to me i think it was worth the money.

[Lowej82]

Me2, unless something bad happens that is said to be because of it, Also if you dont add livestock within the 12 hour span its pointless to add this, as the bio bacteria is said to die off, if not added with in the 12 hour window

[cappy290]

Yeah Im with u i think this stuff is worth the money. Come to think of it i did put a blue damsel an a clean up crew in there 24hrs after using bio-spira and there was no problem at all. I was testing the water daily to see if i had any spikes and all worked out well. So far I only had 1 fish die on me and it was a six line wrasse that got caught in the rock work..

[lynnvangsnes]

I gotta go with nativevaman and glampka...This is an expensive hobby, and one mistake will empty your wallet. I used biozyme once years ago, and I ended up with an almost incurable diatom problem that took months to get rid of. My LR was never the same after that. I had 110 lbs of Marshall Islands LR and that stuff is expensive. It turned brown with the diatom bloom and it was extremely difficult to lose. It changed the whole look of the tank...forever.

[AMS]

Originally Posted by NATIVEVAMAN

does salifert make a test strip for bio-spira?Noooooooooo."If you cant test for it dont put it in your tank."NOTHING good ever happens quickly in a reef tank". If you cant learn patience now in the beggining what are you going to do when you have a real problem?

Originally Posted by glampka

IMO - you don't rush nature. Doing a water change every 3rd day tells me it is required because something is getting out of hand, like ammonia or nitrites. I don't trust anything that is sold in a bottle that you know requires special treatment. You don't know how long it's been since it was made so it might not be any good. Think about the bacterias - they need either ammonia, nitrite & oxygen to survive - how does that happen in a sealed bottle? Guess I'm just skeptical about these magic potions they sell that supposedly allow people to just throw a tank together in a matter of hours without regard to the natural process.

also, if you are adding LR/LS, you are seeding the tank with nitrifying bacteria, and it shouldn't take more than a few days to ecologically stabilize IF there is good filtration/waterflow. the whole 6 weeks thing is when startig from scratch, where you need to achieve a certain level of ammonia to get Nitrosomonas to colonize, and then you had to wait for it to metabolize the NH3+ into nitrite (and achieve a certain concentration of nitrite) before the Nitrobacter would show up, colonize and populate.

so, with properly colonized LR/LS, that process SHOULD only take a few days, since the bacteria is already there, it just needs to adjust its population relative to the concentration of amm. and nitirite.

IMO, bacteria (specifically life cycle) is on of the most misunderstood component of ecology. figure out bacteria, figure out pH/kH relationship, figure out nutrient export, and you've solved 90% of the mysteries of reef keeping.

[Lowej82]

huh........ i got the brown diatom or w/e lasted for like a week covered LR and then fell off, die off w/e, then i started to get alota purple & colors of coraline where the brown diatom was, From what I read on here the brown diatom is a natural thing and usally happens and then you get the coralina...or from over feeding and high nutrients... But I am still new to this which is prolly why I opted for this stuff(BIO-SPIRA) instead of waiting there is a thread call.............. (what i think is brown diatom) or something like that here is the link for it

http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/n...html#post33084

[Lowej82]

Originally Posted by AMS

IMO, bacteria (specifically life cycle) is on of the most misunderstood component of ecology. figure out bacteria, figure out pH/kH relationship, figure out nutrient export, and you've solved 90% of the mysteries of reef keeping.

OK where shall I learn about this? I dont have to buy another thick book do I?

Remember I am a newbie at this

I do agree nothing beats natural life cycle of marine tanks, from what Ive read lol

at first if i was to have read a lil more i prolly would have done it the correct natural way "cycling", Since I didnt read much I chose the bio-spira, to be honest though and Ill prolly smack myself sometime down the road I'd use it again!!

[rlcline76]

Thick book, huh?
2 comments:
1. Just because you are new does not mean that you can expect to have the answers given to you all nice and gift wrapped. If you do not know how to read, maybe try stamp collecting or something less stressful because saltwater is not the hobby for you.

2. I noticed in an above thread that you mentioned that your LFS has a 7 guarantee if something should die. That you would have nothing to lose except time. What a horrible lackadaisical attitude toward life of any kind. Would you buy a puppy from the pet store and then feed it that contaminated wheat gluten crap that was recalled, because..so what?...you have a 7 day guarantee and it's a stupid store owner's policy????

[DoLceNBeLLa]

I think what rlcline is trying to say (well said by the way about the dogs) is that saltwater tanks are a lot of hard work and you really never get done researching.

When I first started out, I read at least 3 books...and still got a bunch of stuff wrong.
Those "thick books" make the difference between "Oh...your tank is...well its...I have to go" and "OH! Your tank!! I simply must stay for a week just to look at everything!"

The LFS guarantee means that if the fish dies, it is their fault because they did not take care of it properly and it was too weak to withstand the change. It does not mean you have 7 days to see if something dies and run back triumphant that you get a new one in return. Try and be a little cautious about how you word things around here...these fish and inverts are not pets to most people here, they're kids.

...And I'm pretty sure your family would be a tad pissed if you killed your sibling/kid but then said "it's OK!! The hospital will give me a new one!

Get some pics up so we can see that pretty tank of yours

[Lowej82]

#1 the thick book comment was a joke, I dont mind reading about things I am interested in!!

#2 my akc certified Choc Lab only eats top of the line dog food and vet service.
the 7 day comment was just saying that the lfs felt that it was safe enough to give the guarantee and take a chance on having to replace them. If i lose 150 buck not really a big deal CHANCE we take id rather see life than death, on same hand im not gonna cry myself to sleep if one of my fish happens to die.

Have you ever used damsels to help cycle? same thing I just spent more money with chance on a greater lose

LAST and most IMPORTANT I work for all ive had and NEVER had anything handed to me!!

the ima newbie part just states that I dont have much experince and any tips and advice would be put to use and I would be grateful for any advice!!

so please do not twist it into something it is not, im not gonna buy fish to kill them because i can get my money back to be honest if i was worried about the money!! I wouldnt have choosen such a touchy obsession, and would have collected stamps..... besides the gain value also and once was alive!

[Lowej82]

the lfs gurantee was based upon the fact of weather or not they would live in my tank, because of me not being sure on this bio-spira is what i was told from the lfs. there qurantee is not that long normally ( they suk ) only lfs i know of around my part

[jimw369]

Why rush things? For those new to the saltwater hobby trust me when I say this, "There will be more times when you will wish you could slow things down and not speed them up".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimw369
I have a problem with the Bio-spiro whatever. Ok, it works. It may work in 2-3days. That goes against one of the biggest principles we (saltwater aquarists) need to be teaching...PATIENCE! How can we advise some one new to the hobby to use Bio whatever because there is no waiting for a cycle and then tell them they should stock their tank slowly a fish at a time. The cycling process should be a time of learning for the new saltwater enthusiast. Its weeks of researching water chemistry, learning about testing, starting and researching that wish list. Cycling is not just something a tank needs to do. It is something some one new to the hobby needs to do also. IMHO

[jimw369]

We all want you to succeed Lowej.

Rlcline76 is a Librarian/Historian. The comment about the thick book was...well...not good here.

And if I spelled Librarian wrong Im sure I will get a pm informing me of the correct spelling. I prefer Media Specialist myself. I can spell that.

[Lowej82]

OK, thats what I wanted some honest opions on this.

Im not saying its 2007 who needs to cycle there tank anymore, It worked for me and just wanted to know other's thoughts. I admit I read only 2 decent sized books around 250 pages and read a lot over the net. I by far am no marine bioligist.
And to be honest the more i read and get into it. the more i become obsessed with it

As far as the work load that goes with it I dont mind i have a small tank so its not alot 10% 3 gal plus testing cleaning and so on.

I would like to do a reef tank with the sump/fuge flowing through both my fowlr and reef tank is this possible as long as it is big enough to filter out the waste from the fowlr tank? or would i be better off keeping them seperate?

I think this has turned into a heated debate......

O wait jus heated @me and the words i choose to use sorry to offend anyone guess I better be more politically correct around here!!

all will be all good

[DoLceNBeLLa]

I think its possible to connect the sump to both but the fish will dirty up the water to the reef tank so make sure to have a big skimmer and do all the water changes and what not.

I'm not completely sure, but you'll get some more answers soon

[jimw369]

I would keep the 2 tanks seperate. Your water parameters might be different from one tank to the other such as your SG might be lower in the fowlr tank. Also if a sickness or desease showed up in one tank it could hurt them both. You wouldnt be able to treat the problem the same in both tanks as it might be harmful to invertebrates and corals.

[glampka]

It's basically up to you. Most lfs run multiple tanks off a single sump. Running more than 1 tank does have the drawback as pointed out by Jim.

BTW Jim, stop picking on my groupie!!!

[AMS]

here is the primary problem w/ LFSs. at the end of the day, they need to make $$$. therefore, they need to sell things, and to that end, they will sell a lot of things you don't really need.

did you really need Bio-Spira to get your tank going? no, because a) that process would happen w/ or w/o bio-spira and b) thy just sold you LR and LS, which is already colonized w/ bacteria. so, its selling redundant products. i can't tell you how many times i've watched a LFS employee sell a customer a bottle of kent iodine and a bottle of kent tech I (which is iodine). first of all, you don't need iodine in your reef....your animals will get all the iodine they woud ever need from the food you add and the salt mix(if you really feel like you need to add iodine, then use a lugol's solution). so, not only do you not really need to add iodine, you definitely don't need to add 2 different iodine products.

but that is the reality of marine retail.....$$$.

as far as the bacteria, pH/kH relationship, nutrient export....you can reseach this stuff online. its best to make sure that whatever you read is peer reviewed (preferrably published by somebody affiliated with a university...that's the most accurate info). sure, it will be boring as all get out, but when you understand the realtionships, you understand the system. actually, you can probably get all the info you need from a college ecology textbook.

[Tonz of fun]

No matter what junk you put in your tank it still takes around 27 days for it to cycle<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Proven by Scientist!!!. Its not just making your levels "level off" its growing heathy bacteria for your tank. If you do things right you will have the rest of your life to enjoy it. If you rush you will have some headaches. We maybe upset but the things you bought did not choose to be taken from the ocean and put in your tank. It is you responsiblity to take care of them. They dont have a choice. Take it slow do it right the first time.