[readyja]

Hello all - first post here. I hate to make "yet another noob with the same old problems" post, but I feel like I've tried just about everything I've seen suggested for common problems, and it's not working for me.

I have a tank which is just about at it's 2 year anniversary. 220 gallon reef setup, 300 lbs live fuji rock, mixed substrate, numerous corals, livestock consists of 5 tangs, 2 clowns, and one or two other reef/invert safe fish that I can't remember. Two sumps, with two protein skimmers, UV filer. 4 large metal halide lights. 2 moonlight LEDs. RO topoff system.

For the first year or so, everything was great, the corals all grew like mad, in fact the LFS said they didn't have any tank that was growing hard corals as quickly as mine. The last 6 months, however, have been pure hell.

Problem 1: Algae is everywhere. Red slime, green slime, bubble, hair, you name it, I have it. It's killed off several corals already, and there are more on their way out if I can't stop it quickly.

Phosphates are zero. Nitrates are zero. Ammonia, Nitrate, all zero. PH is good. Salinity is good. I've tested it myself with two different kits, and I took a sample today to the LFS where they ran a whole battery of tests and I was told that the water was "virtually perfect". Why is all this algae in the tank? I have no idea.

Problem 2: All of my inverts are dead or dying. (yes, I realize this is contributing to the algae problem, however the massive amount and rapid growth of the algae was there before the inverts all turned up dead, not that I'm ruling that out). Snails, crabs, starfish, even my shrimp are all dead with no remains to be found except the shells of the snails. LFS tested for copper and found no traces of it.

Problem 3: All my corals have become some variant of brown. There's no color at all left except brown. The corals seem to be healthy, with the exception of those that get overrun with algae. Outside that, they are fine it seems. The LFS identified that my calcium was a bit low (the only issue with the water), and I have calcium to add which I plan to do tomorrow.

Strangely, I've had several fish disappear without a trace as well. No carcasses, nothing in the overflows or sumps, nothing. It wouldn't be so strange except that there are hardly any crabs or anything left in the tank that could have made off with them.

Today, the latest hypothesis is that (1) the algae is there because the inverts are dead, and (2) the inverts and missing fish have fallen victim so some kind of nocturnal predator in the tank, and (3) the corals are brown because of the low calcium level and possible stress from the same preditor.

Now, I don't if that sounds reasonable or not. It would certainly explain the unending death of inverts in the tank. In particular, I've added nudibranchs to the tank three times in the past to eat the hair algae, which they do a great job off for exactly one day. They are never seen again after the first night. Who knows.

But, the algae was a problem before all the inverts died, so I don't know. Likewise, the corals have been browning out for some time. All of this seems like it's surely related, but I can't figure it out for the life of me. I've been testing and retesting water for 6 months because every explanation I've been given points to nitrates, phosphates, and copper, none of which are present in the water.

In the hopes of finding the unidentified (and perhaps non-existent) predator, I set a trap this evening, but as of now, nothing is in it. I've got a red LED flashlight, and I've looked around for something, but I've not seen anything yet. The nocturnal makeup right now consists of a bunch of worms, a few surviving hermit crabs, and the like. I've seen a few very small almost transparent shrimp-like creatures, and some very tiny snails. That's about it thus far.

So in short (too late!), I have absolutely no idea what the problem is, or what I should even do next. I've spoken with two different LFSes trying to get this solved, and no one seems to be able to help.

If you have any ideas as to what can save my tank, I'm all eyes and ears. All this testing, and it appears that the ONLY thing that's right about my tank is the water quality. Go figure.

Thanks,

Jeff

[patrick1234]

it sounds like somthing is killing off stuff find out what it is have you add any new live rock even coral on live rock?

[NATIVEVAMAN]

I would say you have one of the most severe case's of old tank syndrome I have ever heard of.And it seems you have had it for a while. Suprisingly the cure is easy.First off you need to reeastablish your critter population in your sand bed by adding something like garf grundge.Then get one of the mineral muds and add that to the sand bed or fuge if you have one.Third rearange your rock(and look for bodies while you do it).Then change your flow pattern from your pumps.You may also want to reestablish your clean up crew to eat some of the algea. If you are not testing for magnesium you want to get a kit and make sure its up above 1300 ppm. I know I said it was easy but I lied lol.What you have is fairly common but not often seen in this forum.If you use that uv filter your pod population is more than likely non existant.I would use it sparingly and only during the daylite hours.The pods will start to come back.

[e_baer]

Native, I was thinking the same thing. I have only read articles about old tank syndrome but this sounds like something that came from those articles.

[Ganrin]

One other question is how old are your bulbs? The browning out of everything could be a lack of spectrum.

[readyja]

Hmmm. Interesting. I had thought that old tank syndrome would be accompanied by increasing nitrate and phosphate levels. Am I wrong about that?

[NATIVEVAMAN]

That could be the case but it doesnt have to be.Nitrate and phosphate levels depend largly on bio load and feeding habits.Since the size of your bio load has recently decreased and the amount of food along with it I would not expect that to be a problem.

[WinM70]

What could cause old tank syndrome on a tank only 2 yrs old?

[stephaniesquires]

I have a thought about the livestock dying but am not sure of your timeline - when nudibranches die they can emit a toxin and poison the water, that may be contributing to the livestock death, but I am not certain as to how they disappear. I would do as others above have advised but hold off on the nudibranch's until you determine what is taking care of the body's...

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Old tank syndrome can start as early as 1 year.I have always thought it was from the depletion of vital organisms in the rock and tank.Once they are replaced everything will go back to normal.

[e_baer]

Originally Posted by NATIVEVAMAN

Old tank syndrome can start as early as 1 year.I have always thought it was from the depletion of vital organisms in the rock and tank.Once they are replaced everything will go back to normal.

That is also what I have read. When all the little critters in the sand bed and on the LR and in the tank in general go away, it is basically like trying to keep a tank healthy withough a natural means of getting rid of the waste....and more.

[Jeremy0322]

What would cause all of the beneficial little critters to die though, just so i dont do it? It seems like something would have to take place before everything just started dyeing off.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Jeremy in some tanks its a natural thing.They just die off faster than they reproduce.In some tanks they get eaten by sand sifting critters.And as you know some tanks are bulletproof.Even flow directed at the same area for long periods of time can cause critters to die out in one area of the tank.Exposing areas of live rock that have been buried for a long time can cause a spert of growth.Minerals contained in the sand get used up.
That is why I recomended moving the rock,adding mineral muds,critter additives like garf grundge and changing the flow in the tank.
Tank maintainance isnt just scraping the glass and cleaning the skimmer.

[e_baer]

I plan on getting some mud and I also have a wavemaker.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Well you know I think wave makers are an excelent way to waste electricity lol.

[e_baer]

Well, perhaps in ways, but they also make happy corals.

[readyja]

Hm. Well based on everything you've said here, I have to say that this sounds like the most reasonable explanation of all I've heard, and I will certainly start taking the steps you suggested.

The only thing I'm not sure is why the nudibranchs have all died in just one night (maybe two). A predator seemed to make sense there, but I haven't seen anything that was/would be picking on it.

But everything else makes sense, so I'll be rearranging rock and refurbishing the sand bed and critters. And hopefully cleaning out some algae as well.

Also - is there any way to can check the range of light being emitted by my halides, so as to know if I need to change the bulbs?

[e_baer]

From what I have read and heard, many nudibranchs are fairly difficult to care for and will only live in the home aquarium for a few months at best.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

Nudi's are for the most part very specialized feeders .Like the nudi that eats only aptasia,when its gone so are they.I think lfs's should have nudi rental service's so you can rent one till you algea is gone and take it back for the next guy with an algea problem.
There is one thing you can say for my "old tank" repair plan.Even if I am wrong all the things i suggested should be done anyway.
Without the purchase of a very expensive meter there is no way to measure the light from the mh.Age is generaly the decicing factor as most are out of range at 6 months and many long before that.

[readyja]

Ok. Well these lights are about a year old, so that might be part of the problem there. I did not mention problem number 4 because it's seems so minor at this point, but that problem is aptasia. I have lots and lots of aptasia. Maybe that's another old tank symptom, but if you can win any awards for a perfect algae and aptasia tank, I've got it hands down.

Is the nudi you mention the best way to deal with that (and I'm guessing that's the last of the problems I need to deal with, or is there another way as well.

[NATIVEVAMAN]

You are definatly way past due on the bulbs.As for the aptasia I suggest peppermint shrimp.

[e_baer]

Get a few pepermint shrimp because not all take to aptasia right away.

[mtfabel]

You mentioned wavemakers being a waste of electricity. Here is a better way to get different flow in your tank without a wavemaker.
Oceans Motions
I have one of these on my 180. I have gotten rid of all other powerheads in my tank because of this marvelous product.

[RyanG]

Originally Posted by mtfabel

You mentioned wavemakers being a waste of electricity. Here is a better way to get different flow in your tank without a wavemaker.
Oceans Motions
I have one of these on my 180. I have gotten rid of all other powerheads in my tank because of this marvelous product.

Mike can you upload any pictures of your plumbing? I am curious as to how you have it arranged.

[mtfabel]

I knew that was gonna happen. Ill take some pics this evening and upload them, maybe even a short video.