[King Nine]

Ok, I've splattered pieces of information about my set up on various post but none very concise. I would like your oppinions on what I'm doing and what I plan to do. Here is what my LFS is going to order in the morning for me. (all at aprox $2,000)

75 Gallon All-Glass Aquarium
Cherry oak All-Glass Stand
His own proprietary built 20 gallon sump/refuge
(with bio filter, Coal filter, sediment filter and protien skimmer)
[excuse me if I don't quite all the above terminology correct
I'm goin from memory]
115 lbs of Live Rock
40 lbs of Crushed Coral
Mag 1200 Pump
All hoses and workings

I plan on eventualy putting in some clown fish, a tang (blue maybe), some type of goby and some type of anthias. I don't know any terminology on anenomes or coral yet but they will become a high priority. I also would like some of the fire cleaning shrimp.

Of course the money doesn't cover the livestock. Any oppinions on certain fish or livestock I should look at or stay away from or on the set up please let me know.

[crazygator]

instead of crushed coral go with live sand. gobbies and mandrins cant survive without sand. also many types of cleaner packages work best with sand. before you get into the coral get the proper lighting. anenomes and the such usually need high lighting other than that sounds like you have a great set-up just remember that deaths happen and learn from them.

p.s. please don't use live fish to cycle your tank. many people do but there are so many other ways to do it without harming a fish for no reason. just because you can d something dosent mean you should. it's my quirk but why should something we are supposed to want to care for be put in harms way just so we get an easy cycle. your choise just had to say it. again good luck.....

gator

[MattieFingaz]

I don't know enough yet about what Krazy said except for one thing...using live fish for cycling.

On the opinion of volitan_fa and dr reefinski in this forum I chose to cycle with a shrimp from the seafood department of my local grocery store.

I put in live sand, regular sand and crushed coral in a ratio of 30/40/30 respectively. I then dropped in that shrimp and let it "cook"

It worked out excellent..I could watch my ammonia and nitrite levels grow, level and then drop to zero within 3-4 weeks..

I added some damsels (just because I wanted to double check that I was ok) after all my levels stayed good, they all survived the water, (I had some of those aggressive son of a guns kill each other because I allowed the first round to create a territory)

I found it so easy to just drop in that shrimp and be patient. Not only is it humane, but you don't have to worry about fishing out those cycling fish. I actually spent an hour and had to remove ALL my rock to catch those damsels I put in for a couple weeks to check to make sure I was OK.

I won't speak to what to do after that point because I just started that phase and I don't know what to write until it happens..

This is only my rookie opinion based on my limited experience.

Good Luck!

Mattie

[King Nine]

I know I need to let it cycle before putting in live fish. My LFS said so and so do all of you. What I realy don't know is what exactly a cycle is and how does it change from tank to tank. Do larger tanks take longer or does tanks with less live rock take longer.....:confused:

[King Nine]

Also, would there be a reason he hasn't reccomended live sand to me? I'll ask him about it tommorow or Tuesday.

[MattieFingaz]

I know there's not a set (number of gallons/#'s of live rock and sand/amount of time) equation. I know that I just let it ride and tested my levels daily until my nitrite and ammonia levels were both at zero. Then I took some water to LFS for them to double check and they said..."You're good"

Here's a link that I found very beneficial when I started going through this...about 2 months ago or so...It explains the nitrogen cycle and how your ammonia, nitrite and nitrogen levels should change over time.

Nitrogen Cycle FAQ

Hope that works.

Mattie

[MattieFingaz]

Live sand and live rock are going to create a natural biological filter. In a very simple nutshell....The live rock and live sand harbor TONS of micro-organisms that are going to aid in taking the excrement of fish, excess food and all other "crap" and break them down naturally. From my understanding, the more live sand and rock you have the better your natural filtration will be.

[King Nine]

Thanks for the link. It was very enlightening.

The LFS guy is pretty insistent on 1.5lbs of live rock per gallon for natural filtration. If you have live sand can you get away with less live rock? Do you think he makes up for no live sand with using more live rock?

[crazygator]

the live sand isn't a must, sorry i mis-led, the live rock poundage you lfs quoted is good. with the sandyou don't have to limit te types of fish, some won't live with crushed coral either because of eating habits, or where they live tank wise. at least 4" of substrate is a good start. also live sand i have found easier to vac up and keep clean. still c.c. is just fine if that is the look you want, it's your tank and you will be the one looking at it every day.

[King Nine]

I definately want a gobie. I'm going to have to talk to him when I get a minute. I don't want to be restricted because of the substrate. Can both be used together?

[volitan_fa]

Live sand is good for a few reasons. First of all, sand gives more surface area for biological filtration. Second, it IS easier to clean and keep detritus out of. Third, it is compatible with almost every fish/invert variety out there. Fourth, IT LOOKS BETTER (opinion of course!).

You can use a mix of LS and CC, but in my experience (and a few others) the CC will rise to the top and you've got the same problem on your hands. Plus burrowing creatures (nassarius snails, gobies, etc) don't like CC all that well. My guess is the LFS guy sold you on the CC because it is SO much cheaper. But remember, you can get non-live sand (aragonite based) and 'seed' it with live sand, which can sometimes save you a little dough.

Last note...I run about 2" sand beds because I'm not a fan of deep sand beds. Not saying there's anything wrong with them, but you don't need a 4-6" bed if you don't want it. Good luck with your new setup!

[King Nine]

Thanks for the reply.

First - I went by the LFS today (he is closed on Mondays to do set ups) and looked at his 200 he has just near the window. I like the crushed coral look and noticed plenty of crabs and snails although the snails were all on the live rock. I think you guys realy have me leaning towards the live sand. Is it hard to switch to if I try the CC first?

Second - Is there any drawbacks to the sand. If I go to it instead of the CC will there be a future potential problem that I wouldn't have had with the CC?

Third - How expensive is the live sand? I'm paying a $1 per pound for the CC.

Fourtn - What is aragonite sand and how expensive is it? Is seeding it hard?

Fifth - how did you get a custom avatar?????

[King Nine]

Well, I was WRONG! I guess I should have been more specific. The price DID NOT include a protein skimmer. I also assumed it came with more than typical lighting. Now that I know how much metal halide lighting is:eek: I see why it didn't.

I'm so bummed right now I've been moping around for 2 hours or more and my wife is getting sick of me. I thought because he knew I wanted to do corals that he priced me a system to do it. Back to my first sentence "I should have been more specific." I definately would not have upgraded from the 58 to the 75 if I would have known about the prices and stuff I would need for the coral. I would have used that money for the coral set up. I REALLY WANT CORAL!

Now that the griping is out of the way. What is the BEST and LEAST expensive way to get the proper lighting??? HELP!

(should this now be a post in another thread?)

[tyoung]

Truth of the matter is that you mostly get what you pay for in this hobby. If you go too cheap starting out, you more than likely will end up replaceing equipment that breaks or fails to work all together. Then, you end up buying new or updated stuff to replace the old stuff. I am not sure how this saves any real money in the long run. And, you have to consider the loss of your livestock and/or corals to boot. Things that cost more than others probably do because they WORK and LAST.

IF it were me, I would spend the money on a great skimmer, nice lighting, and a sump/refugium. You can save money by buying a used tank and stand so long it is in good shape and does not leak. Check out lifereef.com for your filter needs and Current USA Outer Orbit for lighting.

Another way to save money is to read, read, read, then read some more. There are quite a few good publications out there that are packed of excellent information on the setup, maintaining, and stocking of marine aquariums. You should read all the different ways of doing your system and make up your own mind on how and what you decide to use. Hope this helps a little, btw, you can count on spending around $45/$55 per gallon to have a nice system that will be stable and maintain healty water peramaters if you do your part.

[King Nine]

OK. I was a little upset when I posted the last time. I have now decided to spend the extra dollars on a good protein skimmer. I trying the 760w combo light from Aquatraders. It is 359 delivered with 2 250w MH and 4 65w actinic compact flourecents. (also with LED moonlights).

I was skeptical about the fixture until reading all the post about it on reefcentral I'm excited about it as they seem to be having good luck with it.

btw: im getting very close to $45 per gallon pre livestock.

[reefaddict]

You won't be disappointed that you got the lights you need now. You should have no limits on what you can put in your tank now when you figure your watts per gallon. How could they price out a system without a protein skimmer. Having one of those is a no brainer, a must. I have two 250w MH and I love them. It was the best upgrade I have ever done. Made all the difference in the world on the health of my coral livestock.

[King Nine]

He assumed I new how expensive the lights and the skimmer would be. The skimmer is not essential for a FOWLR tank. I assumed since he new I like coral that he would include it. It is clearly not stated on the quote. He felt bad after he found out and I believe him. If he knew I wanted a full reef tank I'm sure he would have wanted to sell it to me.

[volitan_fa]

Good thing you bought the MH early on. Switching to higher intensity lighting later on can be kinda hard to do (gotta acclimate your corals).

I uploaded my avatar when I signed up on this site. It was before there were non-custom avatars... I have no idea if he took the custom avatar option down or not.

[crazygator]

if you have some creative ability and can build something i would reccomend building your own lighting. if your interested i can give you the general idea and you will only be limited by your imagination. first though you need to find an electrical supply house near by.

[King Nine]

Thanks for the offer but I've ordered the other light from Aquatraders. I am thinking of building my own canopy though.

[Jaguar23]

I know that I'm going to get slammed by "patience" "take your time" hardliners. If your interested, I can share what I did to get my 75g up in 3 days fully stocked with live rock, fish, soft coral and anemones. I have had 0 amm, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 0 phosphates, calcium 500 (I know its high but that is from the salt mix. I have not used any additives) since day 1 and that was started a month ago.

[crazygator]

jag it can take up to six weeks depending on size the last week or so is full of spikes that WILL kill everything. it's your tank but these are live "pets" why risk their safety for a fast set-up?

[Jaguar23]

I have been in the hobby on and off 20+ yrs. You and I both know it does not take 6 wks to get an amm spike.

[crazygator]

you are right. i was doing several things at the same time when i wrote that. three to four is more the norm and didn't mean the last post. i still don't see how it can be done in three days? let me know please