[Hosser]

So Ive had my tank for a week and a half now, and the damsels are great getting my tank ready. After reading alot of the great threads here I decided to have a closer look in my tank and scowered it for other growth. I was mainly concerned with harmful growth after hearing horror stories. I stumbled upon dozens of plantlike ( stems with bulbs and tenticles and tube like growth with tiny tentacles) My question though is concerning red algae .

Ive been told ALL new tanks will have it. Ive heard it is slimy. Mine seems to be a very thin layer and is quite speratic. Ive seen pics of other tanks where it doesnt seem to be a bad thing. Should I be concerned and my first water test will be tomorrow, so I figure if I need adjustments I will make them tomorrow. Thanks for any suggestions.

( I would get pics but honestly they are way way too small for me to focus in on.)

[e_baer]

hmmm...if the tank is only a week and a half old I would not worry about it.

If the tank is still in its cycling process, I would take those damsels out. It is not good for their health.

[Hosser]

Is there a reason to take the damsels out? They seem to be growing and thriving. I'd say the three stripe has grown about 1/4 " and the yellowtail seems to be getting vibrant color and some size as well. These paticular damsels are loaner starters from my LFS. The tank has been throughly looked after from the fishes owner and he says its great. I hear alot of differant views on it, and everyone around where I am uses starters. I would be worried if they seemed inactive or weak but they seem to be thriving. Any signs I should look for? Thanks for the response. I hope to get the pictures as soon as everything is big enough to focus on. Thanks

[NOSAJ214]

Those damsels will become a pain in the ass if you cant get them out,they will bully new fish you buy in the future also.

[Hosser]

Well they will be taken out in the next couple of weeks as soon as I have an established cycle. I just wanted to make sure they werent being harmed in any way.

[e_baer]

It is like putting carbon monoxide in the air you are breathing right now. Thats how it is for the fish and the ammonia in tha tank. IMO it is mean to start a tank off with fish. Let it go natural by adding nothing until the parameters get into check.


1/4" in a week and a half huh? Thats gotta be the worlds fastest growing damsel! Did you add all the LR and everything yourself or did you buy the whoe "set up" allready established?

[DEWAYNE]

dude, if you kill a damsle, then you have jumped the gun......those guys are great to help cycle your tank, I would not take them out until you get ready to put new fish in, they may be small, but are very agressive toward other fish. I lost three nice yellow tangs form one figi devil, I was not happy with my choice to keep them in there. I wish you happy fishing, just don't go against the grain, like I have done in the past when I first got started out.

[Hosser]

Well I hope with all of you all's help and my LFS I wont kill anything. The damsels will be taken out maybe an hour or so before the new fish go in . OR do whatever is suggested on here or my LFS. The damsels will be going into another starter tank with a couple other damsels of same size. (if that is a bad idea too let me know)

[e_baer]

It is a very bad idea to be constantly tranferring fish from one tank to another! Not only will they be stressed from the transfer, but they will also be stressed because they will be going into tanks that are just being set up. I cant stress it enough that it is a terrible idea to have a fish go through the cycling process. It is mean, cruel, unkind and every other word you can think of.

Put it this way. You are in your home right now, I come and net you and put you in a box to get shipped to america. you go 3-4 days without eating and then you are dumped into a tank at the LFS and the water quality isnt that great. Now, you have been at teh LFS for 2-3 days and someone comes and buys/borrows you and puts you into a new tank that is cycling. The amonia and trites are at incredible levels and you are slowly getting sicker and sicker.

[Hosser]

First of a starter tank doesnt mean its brand new. This "starter" tank my damsels are going into has been set up for two weeks now and by the time I put my fish in it will be another 2-3 weeks. They are wonderful fish but they serve a purpose Im NOT killing them if anything they are in a wonderful new home with plenty of room to swim around. Tell me is even keeping a tank all that humane considering that a fish is made for the OCEAN...... in perspective think about it a little bit. I dont mean to be harsh but my word, someone starting a tank comes here for help and gets blasted for taking the same route many if not most of you all did. I hope i didnt make a mistake thinking I could actually get true honest help from this site. Ive never been on an info hobby site and felt so bashed because of my own way of doing things even though Ive been helped by complete proffesionals along the way.

[e_baer]

NO no no. I dont think anyone here is trying to bash you for anything! I am sorry if it sounds like I am. Like you said, many of us have taken the same way your going now, including myself. I can tell you from experience you need to take a different path. I did what you did, 3 damsels in a 55 and they all ended up dying! It is sad and a mistake I have only made once. When I am asking you to take the damsels out its for your own good and the fishes. I am trying to be as true and honest as I can be which is why it may feel like I am bashing (which I am not trying to).

Again sorry if you feel bashed in any way!

[Hosser]

How did your damsels act, did they seem vibrant and active? In my experiance with any living thing is that they act oddly or sluggish if unhealthy. These damsels are growing, playing, eating, and seem to be loving it. What should I look for in an unhealthy damsel.

[e_baer]

Your fish may look perfectly fine right now, but wake up in the morning and they could be dead. I am not expert at all in fish dead or signs of death, but like you said, sluggish, heavy breathing, not eating, unusually calm, etc.

Damsels are a very very active fish constantly moving around. So, not trying to be rude or anything, but since you are not very experienced and you may no really know what a really healthy damsel looks like, you may think your are active. It is just a thought, not saying its true by any means.

[Hosser]

They are somewhat defensive, very alert, very active, they eat well, love swimming in and out of the live rock..... so Im guessing and its a guess thay are fine. I will take to consideration your thoughts next tank though

[jimw369]

Originally Posted by hosser

First of a starter tank doesnt mean its brand new. This "starter" tank my damsels are going into has been set up for two weeks now and by the time I put my fish in it will be another 2-3 weeks. They are wonderful fish but they serve a purpose Im NOT killing them if anything they are in a wonderful new home with plenty of room to swim around. Tell me is even keeping a tank all that humane considering that a fish is made for the OCEAN...... in perspective think about it a little bit. I dont mean to be harsh but my word, someone starting a tank comes here for help and gets blasted for taking the same route many if not most of you all did. I hope i didnt make a mistake thinking I could actually get true honest help from this site. Ive never been on an info hobby site and felt so bashed because of my own way of doing things even though Ive been helped by complete proffesionals along the way.

Justin...do not take any of this personally. You need to learn whats going on in your tank.

Do you understand what a tank goes thru when in the cycling process? That would be good for you to know. Do you have a test kit and if so what are you testing for? This would also be good to know. This is learning how to get your water parameters. While your LFS can do this, you will want to be learning how to do it for yourself. In doing this you will begin to understand what the "Nitrification" process is. Your tank is starting that process while we speak. For some one starting out a good grasp on what your policy for quarantining fish is going to be. Some people do not feel the need for this but others feel strongly you do. There are other issues you will want to understand. Its a great hobby and extremely satisfying.

Trust me I did not take the same route you are taking. I listened to some people here. I hung on every friggin word that a few said! When I was told to read I read 10 times as much. I bought $300 worth of books and read them before I had any fish! My tank had water in it for 3-4 mos before adding 1 fish. The important thing is a year later I still have that fish. Thats all anyone wants for you. Patience and understanding while you are doing is key for saltwater.

Please read the tank set up guide. It would be a great asset for you.

Ebaer would be a good person to qualify what Im saying. His first tank didnt go as he planned but he stayed plugged in here at RB and got some good advice from the same people I did. His tank is up for Tank of the month now. Elliott is speaking from experience on this more than I am.

[Hosser]

As i mentioned before I am here for the info.... the route I chose is from as good a source as anyone here. Its nothing personal, but I do trust and have researched who I trust. I came here simply because of the "success" of everyones tanks due to either their own knowledge or the help from those here. However the route I chose is the same route literally hundreds have taken over the last 20 or so years from this LFS and I cant say I trust anyone more than anyone else. My tank was set up on the 18th and later this afternoon I am taking some water in to get tested and taught how to read all the perameters, and hopefully get a general knowledge of how to fix any potential problems or keep the water suitable for anything the tank is a home for. Its a learning process, and I have a few good teachers, not just my LFS but others with wonderful tanks. With the info form them companied by the info I get here I expect nothing but a beautiful tank.

[bagonas1]

I am teh fish police if you do notz take outz those damsels hosser they will be very upset and stressed in the tank. Dont you know its lke putting carbon monoxide in the air you are breathing right now??hmm

[spanko]

Cycling with Damsels or other very hardy fish was the approved method many years ago. As keeping a reef tank grew it popularity and experience people found out that all you need to cycle was a source of ammonia. That source can and does come from things other than waste produced from fish. Sources like fresh shrimp, fish food and just live rock. So the accepted method changed from using live fish to using dead things to cycle. This is because, as has been mentioned, the nitrogen cycle has some stages that that contain high amounts of things that are detrimental to the health of live inhabitants.
Your choice to cycle with fish is purely a personnel choice, I think others have tried to point out that it is unnecessary to put a live fish through the danger of a nitrogen cycle.
Here is an article on ammonia poisoning for your continued education. I hope that in the future you may change the method you use to cycle.
Ammonia Stress and Ammonia Poisoning - The First Tank Guide - What Are the Signs of Ammonia Stress?

[dinor2]

Originally Posted by jimw369

Justin...do not take any of this personally. You need to learn whats going on in your tank.

Do you understand what a tank goes thru when in the cycling process? That would be good for you to know. Do you have a test kit and if so what are you testing for? This would also be good to know. This is learning how to get your water parameters. While your LFS can do this, you will want to be learning how to do it for yourself. In doing this you will begin to understand what the "Nitrification" process is. Your tank is starting that process while we speak. For some one starting out a good grasp on what your policy for quarantining fish is going to be. Some people do not feel the need for this but others feel strongly you do. There are other issues you will want to understand. Its a great hobby and extremely satisfying.

Trust me I did not take the same route you are taking. I listened to some people here. I hung on every friggin word that a few said! When I was told to read I read 10 times as much. I bought $300 worth of books and read them before I had any fish! My tank had water in it for 3-4 mos before adding 1 fish. The important thing is a year later I still have that fish. Thats all anyone wants for you. Patience and understanding while you are doing is key for saltwater.

Please read the tank set up guide. It would be a great asset for you.

Ebaer would be a good person to qualify what Im saying. His first tank didnt go as he planned but he stayed plugged in here at RB and got some good advice from the same people I did. His tank is up for Tank of the month now. Elliott is speaking from experience on this more than I am.

This is one of THE best sites for reef info I have found and it's not just for the info, lots of guys and gals here have experience, something I am just not experiencing since I am only 9 months in and I usually always get more than one opinion or suggestion on how to do what I'm asking about. I try to take everything in, research it more myself but, in the end, it's the experience of these great people here that I have come to trust. I have A local fish store I love but again, I take what they suggest and compare it these guys' experience, if they don't line up, I go with what these people say! Haven't steered me wrong so far and I don't think they will. They really are here to help us new reefers, not boss us but share they're experience and wisdom in this hobby. It's our choice whether to take it or leave it, me? I suggest you take it! Just mho.

[e_baer]

I think the main point is just to research everything for yourself. If someone at the LFS says its best to add a damsel, and we are saying not to add a damsel, look it up on google and research it for yourself. That should go with a lot of questions the beginner hobbyist has.

[jankytomato]

Everyone has the local fish store guy that recommends arcane or even just horribly wrong methods. Many don't even know what they're doing and just want to sell you a bunch of stuff. It is frustrating to see all these people post their torture-kill setups from the LFS and the fish store guy said "yeah moray eel and stingray are a great choice for your 55 gal." And to get it going just stick a couple damsels in there, when there's nothing left but bones you're cycled.

I'm new to this thing too. I am working on a reef setup and I have done so much research I should have a degree.

It's depressing to see that the majority of the hobby is people with water cages keeping these beautiful fish for a while before they give in to the stress of being kept in an inadequate setup. No knowledge, no research; just go to the LFS and buy what looks cool and buy a tank the same day. ****, even learning about cycling, setting up and cycling the tank before adding fish (usually too many) only gets you a few months before nitrate poisoning starts killing. And your LFS guy who knows so much more than anyone sells you some bottles of this and that with your next batch of fish.

Do you know these fish are taken from the wild? The people with delirious triggers running into each other and the walls of their 55 gallon that just looks so big from the front, I don't know man, I think heavy regulation may be necessary. Your local guy with 20 years experience is 20 years behind the times. Not to hate, but if you were somebody with a lion that you kept locked in your basement because you like how it looks, I would hope you would get arrested and my feeling aren't too far different for some of these BTK fish killers.