[RenesisJim]

I have decided do to algae problems and the need to restart and cycle my 72 bow, sell the tank and get out of the reef business for a time. After donating peices and occupants of my tank to friend to help him establish the 20g that I had given him after I upsized. After seeing the beginning of my old system inspired my to continue. I was walking through petsmart and found a create deal on a new tank. So whit out further ado here is my freshly purchased empty tank. I am going to go with at least a 4 inch sand bed, half from old tank and half new.

It measures 20x20x32 and is 47g.

Thinking about Sunpod 250w hqi for lighting because of the depth. Still haven't purchased filtration, shoot me any suggestions, Please. Don't want another disaster

[unclejed]

Are you thinking of a sump? I will respond further after I compile some info for you.

[RenesisJim]

Probably leaning more towards a modified canister w/ LR in place of bio media. Only have 11" x 13" under stand. and will need some room for ballast. I also have a koralia 2 & 3 to help circ. Will defintely add a hang on skimmer. I have 100lbs of LS from my 72, but because of the algae issues and that it is mixed with CC, I am only using a small portion to help seed the new tank. I will be purchasing new sand as well. Will defintely go at least 4" deep on bed maybe six. I like the look of the deep bed.



I used a Emporer 280 and a remora on my last 44g and never had a problem. I really like the aqua c skimmers. I am running an urchin pro on my 72.

[RenesisJim]

I went ahead and purchased and Emporer 280 to start the tank cycling. I definitely want to upgrade at a later time, but wanted to start the process. Will start adding sandbed and water tonight. Rock is being recycled and LFS is babysitting my RB, til I can get lighting and cycled.

The tank dimensions are 20x18x30 sorry earlier dimensions were incorrect

to a frest start.

Sure hope someone buys my bow soon.

[RenesisJim]

Well I got carried away with how much sand to keep. I had already purchased a 30lb bag of sugar sized aragonite. Instead of the 4-6 inches, I have about 5-8 in spots. It is still settling tonight. I will post pics tomorrow and you guys can help me decide if it's to much

[unclejed]

Hi, as far as the sand, many (myself included) adhere to the practice of putting in some base rock before the sand. This insures the rock is more stable. If you put rock on top of the sand it can tumble over and we don't want that.
So, put in the existing rock (start your aqua scape) then add the sand around the rock. Add the live bacteria at twice the recommended dose and add it twice a week for a couple of weeks, then you can go out and look for the real "pretty" rock add 1 or 2 nice pieces at a time and give the tank a chance to "season". Remember to add bacteria when you add the pretty rock also. In this time of building your tank, check all your parameters every 5-7 days. Only do a water change after the initial month of letting the base rock season in the tank and right after the change (about 20% of the total water volume), remember you will not have the amount of water you think because some has been displaced by the rock and sand, you can now start adding your pretty rock.

There are some who would tell you that once "the numbers" are all good the cycle is over and you are ready to go, I am not one of those. What many beginner (even some advanced) aquarium keepers are not (fully) aware of is that the full cycle takes at least 6-8 weeks. The reason being, mainly, is this is the time required to fully cultivate a total beneficial bacterial base and achieve a saturation of such. Also, allowing the tank to "season" and go through the inevitable mini-cycles and diatom blooms and get fully established is the key to a healthy and stable tank in the future. When you add one or two fish in, let the tank get established by light feeding and going through a moderate light cycle (6-8 hours) for the next 3 weeks. After that, add a few clean up critters (crabs and/or snails) and allow the tank to "catch up" to the added load (you may at this time add some live bacteria to help in this process) and give it another 2 weeks doing all your tests on a regular (weekly) basis and determine if the tank is stable.
Too many don't exercise the proper patience and discipline at this early stage of getting their tank going only to have problems and head aches down the road. Once the tank has gone through this full cycle period and the tank is stable, then and only then, should you do your first water change. I always employed a bit of advice I got when I was starting out to add bacteria after each water change for the first and subsequent next 4-5 changes. After the first water change then and only then add to the tank and minimally at that.
Another good tactic I learned is to add (whatever you are adding) a couple days after a water change. This gives the new creature fresh minerals and trace elements and a good 3-4 weeks (I adhere to 4-5 week intervals between changes) to adjust to the new water parameters, light, temp etc. before disrupting the tank for the next water change.

[RenesisJim]

I have my rock cycling in a closed ice chest right now, because of alot of algae left over from my old tank. I am going to let it cycle for a week in darkness before I add it. After reading what you said, when I add the rock, I wll pull some of my sand bed out, add the base pieces and then readd the sand. I am not really worried about it cycling again. I am planning on waiting at least 2 mnths before adding anything but rock and sand. First equipment addition will be Sunpod 250w HQI, then a Remora skimmer. First livestock will be the return of my Rose bubble that the LFS is babysitting for me. I've had her for 4.5 yrs. After she settles in her location of choice I will add zoanthids and some mushrooms. Eventually a clown, an orchid dottyback, and the return of my blue linkia which is also at the LFS. I appreciate everyones help and input. This is my 4th different tank, started in 20h, then 44 corner hex, to 72g bow, and now the 47 cube. I want this to be my best tank yet.

Here is a pic this the sand. It's still settling. Crabs and snails are what survived the move, not added.

[unclejed]

Real good plan. I commend your patience. Too many times we rush the process and pay for it later.

[RenesisJim]

My LFS say that my 5-8" sand bed will cause nitrate problems, this really worries me. Do you think I made the bed to deep? It looks great, especially with the height of the tank, but if it is going to be problematic I can make it more shallow. I took some parameters today:

Salinity : 1.023
Nitrate : 20 {Think this is from the reuse of sand bed and water from old tank}
Nitrite : 0
KH: 300ppm
PH: 7.6
Ammonia: unknown out of test

I am adding my cycling rock tonight, as it is almost clear of algae. I changed the water in the cycling bucket this morning and after 2 hrs it was still clean. Will possibly change out 5g of salt in the morning after adding rock, along with some stabilize and Bionic.

[RenesisJim]

Here are a couple of more pics from late last night and this morning. Haven't started any aquascaping yet. Will do that today before work.

[unclejed]

You are adding more rock correct? I take it the pics are of the base rock and you are adding more. Don't forget to add live bacteria at double the marine dose once a week for two weeks.

[RenesisJim]

Oh, yes more rock definitely. I just put the rest of the rock that I currently have in the tank. After it settles again. I will start aquascaping. I am waiting now for the LFS to open so I can get more Stabilize. The water in the tank came from my 72g, so it should have alot of bacteria, but I am treating this as a completely new system not a move.

[RenesisJim]

The documentation continues. I got finished the aquascaping w/ the LR I have. I hate not having good lights, the yellow color from the flourescents suck. So here are pics from last night w/ and w/o the lights on.

parameters: 7/31/09 20:10

Temp. - 80
SG - 1.024
PH - 7.8
Ammonia - .25
Nitrate - 10 ppm
Nitrite - 0

[RenesisJim]

Tank is definitely cycling had an ammonia spike to .5 yesterday was .25 today. That is definitely moving forward. I have decided on an octopus skimmer prob the bh100ss I think is what model it is. I am also starting to see signs of coraline algae starting to spot. The sand is also starting to change color and create layers as it becomes more anaerobic. I will post some more pics and parameters tomorrow. Still trying to decide on what canister filter to use.

[RenesisJim]

Sorry that I haven't posted any knew pics, been really busy with work. Tank is still cycling, forgot about Jed said about waiting until the rest pf the rock was purchased and waiting out the full cycle. Their is still nothing else in the tank, with the DSB, it is taking longer for the oxygen to deplete from it. I am trying to be patient. I haven't found any nice peices of rock to add, so that is why no new pics. Decided on a bh100f skimmer that will also replace my emporer 280 until I can decide on a canister, I am leaning toward the JBJ. Then I will use the extra chamber for my heater. Will prob purchase light first. I really need to get my Rose bubble back from the LFS, he looks like $#%$. He has withdrawn all his tentacles, but his mouth and base look fine.

What to do?

Temp - 79
SG - 1.024
Ammonia - 0
NO3 - 20
NO2 - 0
PH - 8.2
KH - 300

[Mr_X]

hi. just some observations-
i think you could get away without the cannister filter. you are going to run into the same problems with the rock rubble in the cannister- it's going to need to be rinsed regularly.
live rock rubble has porous surface area which bacteria reside. that's it. nothing more.

live rock and your skimmer can do the job if you are careful how much nutrients you add/remove from your system.

i would not add an anemone to a newly cycled tank. you might think about returning it, or getting credit for later.

you should also raise your salinity to .026, which is the salinity of the sea water at the reefs where these creatures are collected.

the tank you chose is going to be quite a challenge. the amount of real estate is quite limited. i hope you can achieve correct flow so that detrius can be suspended long enough for the skimmer to remove it.
maybe you coould place a powerhead low in the tank and cover it with live rock so that you get ample movement down towards the bottom.
they even make powerheads that have fake live rock around them which might work also.

[RenesisJim]

I normally run my salinity at 1.025 which gives a little room for evaporation. The tank isn't really newly cycled. All the sand except 30lbs and the water was xfered from my 72bow. The LR I have had for 4 yrs total throughout different tanks. So minus the 30lbs of sand the tank is actually cycled and cured, except for the DSB of course. I have had the anemone for 3.5 years and he has split 9 times, so I really don't want to get rid of him.

I am currently running the emp 280, Koralia 4 & 2. That give me close to 2000 gph flow rate. Hope that will be enough. If it isn't, I will purchase the controllable koralia setup and run 2 2's and 2 3's. Then put my 4 behind the rock blowing forward to assist flow.

Mr. X, do you really think I could run the system with just the skimmer, with enough circ of course? The reason to go canister was to remove the Emp 280 from the back of the tank, so I can use the filter compartment in the bh100f for my heater. I can use the Bh100ss skimmer and keep the 280 and leave the heater in the tank. The BH100f also has an internal powerhead, so I wouldn't be adding another ph into the tank, but it is to wide to accomodate both the 280 and the bh100f

[Mr_X]

i think you'll be better off without the cannister actually.
unless you want to run some carbon in it and clean it weekly. i wouldn't put any bio media in it at all.

[RenesisJim]

Thanks for the advice Mr X. I am going to order the BH100f and just run the skimmer w/ the heater in the compartment. Run it more like a closed loop. Then when necessary I'll add some carbon to it. I'm probably going to add another koralia to compensate for the lose of the emp 280 flow

I also purchased a new piece of LR today it is a 14.5lb piece of Fiji. So here are a couple of shots after new aquascape.

[Mr_X]

i like it.

[RenesisJim]

Thank you very much. My LFS has a used Remora pro w/ mag3. I may see if I can get him to trade me for my Urchin pro. Would definitely save me some money on a skimmer. He's closed until Thurs so I'll have to wait until then to find out.

[Mr_X]

hmm. i would look into the octopus HOB skimmers instead of the aqua-c line. they are 100x better.

[RenesisJim]

I agree. I'm trying to purchase a used one right now from a guy here in OK. I'll get it for $50 if his current buyer falls thru, but if I can just swap for the remora for now and not have to spend any $$. I can live w/ it for now

[RenesisJim]

Sorry, I haven't been on in awhile. I have reaquascaped the tank, added Reef Octopus skimmer bh100. I chose to leave the Emp 280 for flow and Carbon (for now). I have added a green chromis and 4 striped damsel, couldn't stand to see it empty anymore. I purchased a 6-line wrasse last week as well. I also added a couple of turbo snails. Tank has cycled well. Coraline algae is starting to really bloom. I am adding another koralia to the tank soon for better flow towards the bottom. Here are a couple of pics that I took today. Hope you like them. The chromis and damsel will eventually come out and be replaced by a pair of picasso clowns.

[Mr_X]

looks interesting!
good luck getting the chromis and damsel out in that tank full of rock!
my advice would be to get them out now, before it's full of corals!