[map95003]

I know this has been discussed numerous times in the past so I don't want to beat it to death.

I did all the right things with my current tank, choose the right equipment, asked tons of questions, took my time with the setup, took my time stocking the tank, QT my livestock, kept up on maintenance...and got ick anyway just a few months after setting up the tank last year...

The tank has been healthy for ~14 months now, fish fat and happy, corals growing like crazy...I haven't added fish to this tank in almost 1 year, and bam, ick attack on my blue tang and today I saw signs of it on my yellow tang...this sucks because there are no other precautions I think I could have taken, maybe copper but I heard that's not so great on the fish health....I know a lot of you guys would disagree but I don't believe QTing/hypo is guaranteed to prevent ick, and I don't think I'll be doing it for 6 wks going forward. Hopefully my tangs are strong enough to fight it off, the hippo had lots of spots yesterday, looks a little better today....I would hate for any of them to die, they are so cool now, if anything should happen to them I think I'm done with tangs.

[jake adams]

Sorry to hear about your problems, especially considering you did everything in the book. The only other technique that can sometimes help in your case is using garlic in food, as outlined in this morning post by Dr. Paul.
Garlic Prophylaxis: an effective way to mix garlic and food to reduce fish parasites | Reef Builders -The Reef Aquarium Blog

[iggy]

ich and tangs just go together.

Unfortunately garlic is still debated as antibacterial in human diet and a snake oil medically speaking in fish foods as a cure. It might work but likely is a feel good measure. It was originally introduced by PufferQueen years ago and never used as she originally intended.

The best course of action is a quarantine tank for 3-6 weeks, or 8 if your thorough. Tangs are typically treated as a matter of course with 0.6 ppm Copper Sulfate. It needs lots of testing. Tank and filtration are now copper tanks only or dedicated QTanks. Display tank will need to be fishless as well. A sponge filter for 2-3 weeks in the and sump and frequesnt water changes is required.

It's really your call if the effort is worth it to do it right. Some will say two weeks is sufficient with copper at 80F.

On the upside once done you can keep for interesting tangs in future.

[jake adams]

Kelly Jedlicki was definitely not the first person to introduce garlic use in fish food. I don't know who did but Ecosystem Aquaria released Garlic Elixir to the aquarium product well before the name "Puffer Queen" was ever coined.

[pogodzib]

I quarantine all fish for a minimum of six weeks and also treat many types of fish during that period for at least 4 weeks using hyposalinity treatment to make sure any ich is killed off. Tangs are one fish that I always treat using hyposalinity, whether they show signs of ich or not, since they are one of the fish most prone to ich. I'm now going on 6-7 years without a single case of ich showing up in my display tanks, even though ich shows up regularly in my q-tank with new fish.

[map95003]

The tangs are looking much better this afternoon....hopefully they are fighting it off. I don't know all the facts behind garlic, and I'm not sure if it does the trick but it's the only thing i've been giving them in their food over the last few days....if it goes away I'll let it be, don't feel like tearing down my tank...I'll leave that for the upgrade project in a few yrs.

[iggy]

That's interesting about the Puffer Queen!!

Have heard Steve Pro and JHermdal both indicate FW dips are ineffective and Garlic sells well but has never been proven to work.

The more I read, the more misleading this whole subject is.

In terms of copper, I read sequestered copper is great to ineffective as well. I am using copper safe at 1.5 to 2.0 ppm with Salifert test kit.

I bit the bullet and did a quarantine of everything after a bad down turn while I was on vacation. I like many others thought tank was ich free until a powder brown in a copper tank for 3 weeks was released and covered in 2-3 days. Since I am a tang fan, I did the Q-Tank the hard way. 6 weeks with copper safe and wish I had straight copper instead.

[unclejed]

Originally Posted by map95003

The tangs are looking much better this afternoon....hopefully they are fighting it off. I don't know all the facts behind garlic, and I'm not sure if it does the trick but it's the only thing i've been giving them in their food over the last few days....if it goes away I'll let it be, don't feel like tearing down my tank...I'll leave that for the upgrade project in a few yrs.

Hi Martin, did we go over this before? I don't remember. The best prevention and cure for fish disease is Marine-Max;

Manufacturer Categories - Tropical Science : Aquariumpros.com

[pogodzib]

Originally Posted by unclejed

Hi Martin, did we go over this before? I don't remember. The best prevention and cure for fish disease is Marine-Max;

Manufacturer Categories - Tropical Science : Aquariumpros.com

I don't buy into that. The best method to prevent and cure fish diseases is good tank husbandry and quarantining all fish to prevent diseases from getting into your tank. If a disease does become present, treating the disease with the correct means and methods that are proven for that disease is always the best choice. Using a broadband medication that you have no idea what chemicals are in it or if they work for the specific disease should only be used as a last resort. Each disease has specific chemicals that work the best at combating that disease.

[map95003]

Originally Posted by unclejed

Hi Martin, did we go over this before? I don't remember. The best prevention and cure for fish disease is Marine-Max;

Manufacturer Categories - Tropical Science : Aquariumpros.com

Leon, all signs of ich are gone, not sure if the garlic had anything to do with or if it just went away on it's own. The tangs are back to their normal selves even though they didn't seem fatigue to begin with. I've added Marine-Max to my list of things to read up on. I've been reading up on Herbtana, it's somewhat new but 'sounds' good.

Originally Posted by pogodzib

I don't buy into that. The best method to prevent and cure fish diseases is good tank husbandry and quarantining all fish to prevent diseases from getting into your tank. If a disease does become present, treating the disease with the correct means and methods that are proven for that disease is always the best choice. Using a broadband medication that you have no idea what chemicals are in it or if they work for the specific disease should only be used as a last resort. Each disease has specific chemicals that work the best at combating that disease.

Brian, I did the same when I first introduced the tangs, I didn't do hypo for the clowns, 6-line and mandarin just QT, maybe I didn't do it right or maybe ich came in with a coral or something. Even though I don't dump LFS water in my system, some of it does get in there with corals. I bought a new piece of coral 3 wks ago, not sure if that had anything to do with it.

The tangs are growing so eventually I'll "have" no other choice but to get a bigger tank, maybe in my next setup I'll have a QT for everything with lights, etc. for corals. We plan to move in a few yrs, hopefully build a house exactly the way we wante it, hopefully including a nice fish room.

[unclejed]

Originally Posted by pogodzib

I don't buy into that. The best method to prevent and cure fish diseases is good tank husbandry and quarantining all fish to prevent diseases from getting into your tank. If a disease does become present, treating the disease with the correct means and methods that are proven for that disease is always the best choice. Using a broadband medication that you have no idea what chemicals are in it or if they work for the specific disease should only be used as a last resort. Each disease has specific chemicals that work the best at combating that disease.

For everyones learning, you don't have to "buy into" anything. Since you called it a medication I guess you don't know the science behind the product. People take various things like Vitamin C to help their immune system so they won't get sick. Marine-Max is all natural and boosts the fishes immune system. It works. So, (politely) read up before knocking it.

[map95003]

I believe in keeping an open mind, if we all had just stuck with what's considered 'known remedies' we would all probably still be running under gravel filters...to go back even further, we would all still be cave men. Just my opinion, but I think knowledge, growth, change, etc. require some educated risk taking. Key is do your research, you don't have to dump everything someone suggest into your tank, on the other hand, that's how we learn and move forward with this hobby...from experience, either our own or from others.

From my experience, corals are hardier that most of us might believe. I've tried lots of things in my tank since I set it up, it's all part of the learning experience so please don't consider this bragging, just trying to make a point...I think my corals are doing OK and hopefully I've learned a few things along the way. Hopefully with experiment and an open mind we don't have to depend of "hypo" or "copper" forever.

[pogodzib]

I re-read my post and it may have came off a little different/harsher than I meant it to be. I did read up on Marine-Max multiple times in the past, both on the company website and various forums. However, I strongly believe that the "best prevention and cure for fish disease" is good husbandry and treating livestock with means and methods that work 100% of the time when done correctly. Yes, we all experiment with new products from time to time and this hobby wouldn't have advanced to where it is today and where it is going in the future without experimentation. However, I've seen way to many people, myself included, kill livestock from trying a new product instead of going with ones that are known to work. If someone wants to use a product as a preventative measure to prevent a disease from showing up, by all means go ahead. Any product that boosts a fishes immune system without harming the system has benefits when used in moderation. However, if the disease still shows up or the product has negative side effects, IMO, one should go back to what is proven to work.