[Lazy Iguana]

Well the Florida Fish and Wildlife people answered my email. My question was pretty simple, "Can I collect my own live sand from Florida waters".

The answer was not as simple. First there was the very helpful "sand is not alive" comment. As if I did not know sand is really just ground up rock. But then it gets better. They started telling me about DREDGING permits and such. And that I would need tons of sand to harvest 100 pounds of critters.

First off, I do not need "hundreds of pounds" of sand critters. Nor do I need tons of sand. Tons of sand would sink my boat. And I am not about to bother with a permit to dredge. It seems the State of FL does not know the difference between digging a mile long 8 foot channel in water only 3 feet deep and me collecting 1/2 a 5 gallon bucket of sand from an actual reef.

So before I get arrested, fined, and my boat taken away because I failed to file the proper dredge permit and pay for an environmental impact study and whatever else I should do to collect a few measly pounds of sand - does anyone here have any input about this?

Yes I know it is cheaper to just buy the stuff. That is not the point. The point is I already have the boat ($17,000) and right now the boat tanks are full of gas (55 gallons), the two cycle oil tank is full (3 gallons premium DFI oil), and as an added bonus I make the trip out to the reef line when I feel like it. Plus, I will know where the sand in the tank came from and somehow that will be cool. Like having a little bit of The Keys right there in a tank. Along with the shells I collected from Sanibel Island. And if I "save" a few bucks it will offset the cost of the boat, the gas, the 2 cycle DFI oil, and everything else related to boat ownership.

[cappy290]

Hey James I'm jealous I want to be out fishing in the keys. I hear ya i think it would be cool to know where the sand came from that was sitting in your tank. I live near the Jersey shore and i thought of doing the same but i dont have a boat and the stuff right off the shore has all the pollutants in it so i scratched that idea. I am starting a bigger tank soon and was looking to save a little $$$ so i will be buying dead sand from lfs and seeding it with one bag of live sand. Well sorry Florida had to rain on your idea it was a good one at that bro..

[pogodzib]

Whether it is illegal or not is one thing and whether it is beneficial to you is another thing. Most of the pollutants in the ocean and getting there from being wasted in from the shoreline or being discharged from cities. I wouldn't want to use beach sand in my tank for fear of what is in it.

[glampka]

Cost of boat to get sand -$17,000
Cost of gas - ~$150
Cost of Oil - ???
Lbs collected - 30?
Cost/lb - $573/lb !!!

[dfurbee]

Originally Posted by glampka

Cost of boat to get sand -$17,000
Cost of gas - ~$150
Cost of Oil - ???
Lbs collected - 30?
Cost/lb - $573/lb !!!

Gary, how did you figure that out?? This is a significant amount of $$$$

[glampka]

Originally Posted by dfurbee

Gary, how did you figure that out?? This is a significant amount of $$$$

Can't tell you - it's a secret!!!

[Lazy Iguana]

The sand would be collected from several miles offshore, in 20 - 40 feet of water. Not right offshore. Pollutants would not be any worse than anything I could buy here. If there is wild coral growing in the same place I get the sand from, how bad could it be?

And I could always deep dredge for sand / mud in deep water. I can weight a bucket at the top so it lays flat, drop the thing down a good 600 feet (I have the rope to do this) and then drag it along the bottom. Hauling the line up would be a chore, but I could get lazy and use the anchor windlass. Who knows what I would being up from that deep! I might discover a new species or something.

The boat is used for more than sand collecting. but I could always sell it and recover some of that money. I do not want to do this however, I like the boat. I can use it year round here in South Florida. If I invest in a wetsuit I can even dive / snorkel year round. The water gets a bit chilly for my taste in the winter (it dips to the 70s). Yea I know - it is a rough life. Someone has to live it.

[pogodzib]

I would say not to worry about it if you're only taking a couple gallons worth of sand. But then what happens when the next person does it, and then the next. Pretty soon that 600 feet down to the bottom becomes 601 feet. Oh wait, I forgot about all of the erosion along the shoreline from people disturbing the beaches and building houses too close to the water. I guess the ocean is now only 599 feet deep at that spot. Where does the line get drawn between recreational sand collection and commercial dredging? That is why we pay the State and Federal government the big bucks to make that decision for us. Think about how much time they need to spend sitting in their chairs at the beach doing research to make that best decision for all of us. Sorry about the sarcasm, but I'd just buy the sand and leave the reefs alone.

[dfurbee]

Sorry about the sarcasm, but I'd just buy the sand and leave the reefs alone.

Amen to that!! Pretty soon, there will not be any

[Cela Vie]

I say forget the sand and let's go fishing before we can't find any more dolphin/mahi for the year. I'll drive down Friday night for the Hurricane/Marshall game on Saturday then we can go fishing on Sunday and I'll drive back to Jax on Monday (woohoo long weekend!). Heck, I'll even bring 80 lbs. of sand from my tank and invite you to the game. I have season tickets at the OB...45-yard line 32 rows up. Actually, I sold the Marshall tickets.

[Lazy Iguana]

I would collect off the reef line. Where I am thinking of, at 40 feet there is just nothing but white sand, slowly dropping off deeper and deeper into the void.

Most of the reefs here are bleaching out pretty bad. Nobody is sure why. There are theories, but nobody really knows. Could it be the water temperature? Could it be runoff from the land? Both? Neither? Who knows.

Also the fish stores here get their sand from........somewhere. Nobody will say where. But my guess is somewhere in the ocean. But once again - who knows. I know that there are boats that go out to collect natural sea water.

Collecting any rocks or wild corals is highly illegal. You can collect your own fish, but there are restrictions on those too. You better know what you are collecting if you do. I would not.

[dfurbee]

Originally Posted by Cela Vie

I say forget the sand and let's go fishing before we can't find any more dolphin/mahi for the year. I'll drive down Friday night for the Hurricane/Marshall game on Saturday then we can go fishing on Sunday and I'll drive back to Jax on Monday (woohoo long weekend!). Heck, I'll even bring 80 lbs. of sand from my tank and invite you to the game. I have season tickets at the OB...45-yard line 32 rows up. Actually, I sold the Marshall tickets.

Cela Vie, what a nice offer Hope they take you up on it! Don't blame you for selling the Marshall tickets, either!

[Cela Vie]

Actually, I'm probably going to be selling most of the games this year. Hard to get down there with work and a two-year old (more work). I will definitely be there for the Virginia game, which is the last game of the season and the last game at the OB. The Old Rusty Relic in Little Havana shall be no more (at least not for Hurricane football ). Oh well, you know what I always say...C'est La Vie...

[Lazy Iguana]

They want to tear down the Orange Bowl to build a sandbox for the Marlins to play with balls in. But there are funding problems. The team is still short $20 million or so and the City Of Miami is not in a hurry to come up with it.

I hope it is not built. The County needs to take back their $88 million and spend it on something else. The total budget of $500 million seems too little to tear down the OB and build a new retractable roof fully air conditioned stadium in its place. The project will be over budget and the public will be left having to come up with the money to finish it or else leave the project half built.

It is a bad deal overall. If the team wants a sandbox, they can build it. It is a private business after all.

I do not see the County in a hurry to give me a few million bucks to buy a larger boat that I can use as a charter.

[Cela Vie]

You gotta love the City of Miami...kind of glad I'm out of there. You know, my seats at the OB are so good I vowed I would never not renew them no matter the cost, but now that they are moving to Dolphin Stadium and I don't live there any longer...well, I can just get tickets for the games I want to go to through the Alumni Association.

I hope it's not built either. It's probably over budget already. LOL

Let me know if you start a charter...I LOVE DEEP SEA FISHING!!!

[RyanG]

James, most LFS buy from a wholesale supplier of rock and sand. Some of the best sand is Fiji live sand which can usually be bought online. This sand does come from Fiji with the blessing of the Fiji Government. I have Fiji Sand in my 75 gallon, so white its awesome!

I wouldn't get the sand from the ocean unless you got at least 5 miles out.

Or

Spend $300 and get about over 150 pounds of the best sand you can buy

[crousec]

Hey I posted this thread quite awhile ago and I too live in South Florida and wanted local aspects to my tank. I ran down the marine patrol and asked them about it and taking sand off the reef is fine. Live rock is illegal to harvest. Fish species are according to state regulation on size. I would warn about sand location, it is everything when you are trying to get pollution free sand. In the keys I would definetly stay on the Atlantic side and away from and runoff sources. I got mine in 55 feet and havent had any problems w/ it. Also side note if you make the crossing to the bahamas it is pretty much illegal to harvest anything and w/ the new fishing regulations you can expect to be boarded.

[Terrjenn]

Hey Cela,

How much for tix to the OU/Miami game?

[Lazy Iguana]

Thanks for all the replies.

Collecting from 50 or even 60 feet is not a problem. I have a scuba certification. I was actually thinking of Carysfort Reef. It is close enough to me that I can launch the boat from the south end of Miami and then just run to Key Largo by sea. Saves me from having to deal with trailering all the way to the keys. Carysfort is well off shore, close to blue water. Go 100 yards off the reef and you are getting into 150+ feet deep water.

Really, I just like the idea of having local stuff. I would like to get my LR from Tampa Bay Saltwater, they have a lease site somewhere off Key Largo where they are allowed to plant and then harvest live rock. I thought about getting a slurp gun and trying to collect tropicals, but gave that idea up. The tank I am thinking about is going to be small and will not have more than 1 or 2 small fish and a few inverts anyway. It is not worth getting the equipment to collect fish for. Plus, fish swim fast! And they find good places to hide. It is not exactly easy to capture small reef fish.

And it also gives me a good excuse to launch the boat and spend the day out on the water. I could bring some friends, go to the reef, snorkel and/or dive, and generally have fun. I have a live well so anything I bring up can remain wet for the whole time.

[mtfabel]

Ill be in the keys all week next week PM me your number Ill be glad to take up some space on your boat. LOL. Im staying in marathon with my GF.

[Cela Vie]

Originally Posted by Terrjenn

Hey Cela,

How much for tix to the OU/Miami game?

Are you planning on going to Norman, OK? I actually might be going myself. I have access to tickets and I may be travelling the week after the game for work, sooo...I may leave early for the business trip and take a detour to OK... I'm not sure if any tickets are available for sale, but if I don't go...