[ilovemash]

Just came home from the movies and I noticed my mandarin goby is just resting on the sand bed and is breathing pretty hard. I have never seen him act like this which is why I am concerned. He has been eating from what I have seen, he picks at the glass and LR. Anybody have any ideas?

[glampka]

Don't even ask the question without posting water parameters.

[ilovemash]

My rule of thumb is unless otherwise stated assume my params are fine.
pH=8.2
Amm=0
Trites=0
Trates=5
Phos=0
I work very hard to keep my water in good condition.
The only thing that is a little high is my SG which is at 1.027 but I'm lowering that slowly.

[rlcline76]

How long have you had the mandarin?

[pogodzib]

And what other "pod" eating fish do you have? How large is your pod population? A 60 gal tank is on the small side for a mandarin. They need plenty of food. Does the mandarin have a fat, round stomach or is it flat? Did you make any changes, including water changes, to your system lately?

FYI - Unfortunately, many people think there water parameters are fine when they are not or don't even test and just say that they are fine, so it is always nice to see actual readings when trying to help someone out.

[reefcouple]

I love dragonettes..

But what Sara and I have noticed is that they will eventually eat their way out of food... Even if they do eat brine/mysis etc..

We just lost one not too long ago as well, it did the same thing as yours... But we also had an "ick" issue that claimed ours...

[ilovemash]

I did a ten gallon change last Saturday, but the water I used was very clean. He's been in the tank since early December. I do have a very nice pod population as I can see tons of them at night. He was a little more active this morning but is still breathing heavy.
Yes many would say 60 is on the small side for a mandarin, but I have read, heard, and witnessed studies on how to even keep them in a nano cube. One of my professors has a mandarin in a 12 cube, and a, at least I think they are, mated pair in a 30 gallon tank. He says it really all comes down to making sure they have a good pod population in the tank.

[rlcline76]

Again, how long have you had him?
Any other signs of illness? Flukes?

[ilovemash]

Originally Posted by ilovemash

He's been in the tank since early December.

So that would be......a little over a month.
No signs of any diseases or illness in the tank.

[rlcline76]

Sorry about that.
No signs of aggression from other fish?

[ilovemash]

Lol its all good.
No visible injuries, and none of the other fish bother him at all.

[ilovemash]

Just went to check on him, and the poor guy died!
Im really bummed out about this one. I loved that fish!

[ejwsr]

Mandarins excrete a toxic mucus when they are stressed. During shipment from the Western Pacific they are swimming in their own poison. Some survive, others succumb slowly.

I had one that recently went raging into that quiet night. He flitted rapidly from corner to corner, had a seizure and was gone. I had him for a week. The female died a week later and she had been in the tank for 9 months.

When shopping for a dragonet, ask how long the critter has been in the tank. You will have a better chance if the fish has been around for six to eight weeks. Drip acclimate for at least three hours.

[rlcline76]

Sorry for your loss. They are cool fish!

[reefcouple]

Yeah we are sorry for you too, we just lost one a week or so ago and it was a great fish, so we feel for ya.

[capitalb]

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss.I've had my mandarins (mated pair) for about three months now and yesterday my female was missing. I found her in the corner box six hours later. I netted her out and she secreeted her mucus(quite a bit) but she is fine today. Hopefully soon I will have some tank raised babies for sale.They are five and a half weeks old now but are growing extremely slow.

[ilovemash]

So I was so sad about my mandarin that I just had to get a new fish of some sort. I ended up getting a BEAUTIFUL Pencil Wrasse, this thing is gorgeous! Anyone ever keep one of these?

[thelastmucci]

Well I am sad about your mandarin I was going to get one of those for my 39 gallon but like you did the research and found that even if I had a good pod pop. and even added pods on a regular basis the poor animal would be miserable. I don't know a thing about pencil wrasse...the wrasse that I'm researching now for my "centerpiece" fish is a scott's fairy wrasse. Beautfiul coloration similar to the mandarin but they seem to be more hardy and willing to except other food other than pods. The only thing that concerns me is that they come from Australia so it would be a long "flight" for the poor thing making me think it does poor in captiviity.

[reefnoob1991]

Seeing "tons" of copepods on the rocks at night may seem good enough but in reality they go through hundreds a day

[ilovemash]

Im aware they can go thru roughly 200 a day, Im also aware that my pod population, even if they stopped multiplying, would be enough to sustain a mandarine for quite some time. Ive decided that it could not have been starvation that killed the mandarin. He was fat and eating.

[ejwsr]

Food for thought:

When speaking of pod populations there are many variables to consider. The first element is species. Tigriopus californicus (Tigger Pods) have a generation rate of 28 days while nitokra species have a 2 day generation rate. The generation rate is the egg hatching to egg producing cycle time.

Second, but less critical is the size of the pod because the numbers of pods needed to have a self sustaining population vs predation pressure. Larger pods will attract larger fish and create competition. Smaller pods tend to be ignored by non dragonets. It takes more small pods to get 1 gram of biomass vs larger pods.

Finally, total population is important as the fish will preferentially eat egg bearing pods, large males, then juveniles.

Be aware of the various pod consumers in your reef, figure 1000 copepods each x 60 and then you might have enough to sustaining your dragonet.

Ocean Pods are a great product and contain three species of pods.

[reefcouple]

Where can you purchase "ocean pods"

Thanks

[rlcline76]

Originally Posted by ejwsr

Food for thought:

When speaking of pod populations there are many variables to consider. The first element is species. Tigriopus californicus (Tigger Pods) have a generation rate of 28 days while nitokra species have a 2 day generation rate. The generation rate is the egg hatching to egg producing cycle time.

Second, but less critical is the size of the pod because the numbers of pods needed to have a self sustaining population vs predation pressure. Larger pods will attract larger fish and create competition. Smaller pods tend to be ignored by non dragonets. It takes more small pods to get 1 gram of biomass vs larger pods.

Finally, total population is important as the fish will preferentially eat egg bearing pods, large males, then juveniles.

Be aware of the various pod consumers in your reef, figure 1000 copepods each x 60 and then you might have enough to sustaining your dragonet.

Ocean Pods are a great product and contain three species of pods.

Eric, this sounds somewhat interesting. Do you know of I study I can review for this info?

[ejwsr]

Google for Ocean Pods.

Only somewhat interesting? More information can be found on Google Scholar, look up copepods. One author Adelaide Rhodes PhD does research on 'pods and sells Ocean Pods. I have bugged her to death for some information and have read all of the articles I could find.

What makes this really complex and a challenge for me is all of the variables for sustaining a population. First is the generation v. life cycle and predation pressure math. Next is the nasty habit that copepods have delaying gestation if there is an upset condition.

What got me really interested in this is that I was keeping a mandarin dragonet in a 12 gallon micro reef. The clowns would eat the tigger pods and the dragonet was always picking at something. I got a 10x loupe and examined an area close to the glass that she had been grazing. I was amazed at the amount of microfauna, like 60 per square centimeter. I have distinguished at least for species of pods in my tank.

This has changed the way I deal with water changes and sand cleaning. Now I use a powerhead to stir up the gunk in the tank and keep it stirred up in an effort to get the gunk into the fine filter and allow the pods to resettle in the sand. I also siphon water from downstream of the filter to reduce the number of pods removed from the system.

The dragonet? I had her for 9 months and not only was her stomach full, she was also getting ready to spawn. Then the male died, poisoning her in the process, and I am waiting for suitable replacements to become available.

Anyway, Dr. Rhodes wrote her dissertation on pods and is very helpful in answering questions.

[thelastmucci]

Hey Becky anyway you could put this somewhere in the RB Library?