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Are cone skimmers here to stay or just another marketing trick to get the hobbyist to buy? One company, ATB, has built their entire skimmer range around the cone design and it seems like more and more companies are offering some sort of cone skimmer design. Heck, there is even a patent on the actual cone design which no one seems to really care about and companies continue to produce cones anyways. Deltec has been the exception so far as they haven’t produced a cone design and it doesn’t look like they will be doing so with Master Deltec distributor DD Aquarium went as far as to say that they found cone skimmers to be “distracting” (NSFW) when looking at the design concept several years ago, a hint towards the cone skimmers being a fad trend within the hobby. Scratch H&S off your list too, their designs have remained tried and battle tested and not likely to change. What do you think? Do you think that cone skimmers are a fad or here to stay?
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This thing has 22 Comments
I’m not sure if the cone design is a fad or not; at the very least it seems plausible that it’s an improvement. But wasn’t it Deltec (or maybe BK?) who, a few years ago, researched mesh wheelsand later determined they were not a worthy improvement (due to lack of consistency)?
Fad
Their is a fad
but it’s not Cone skimmers
It’s deltec skimmers.
D-D known as ones that belittled every good idea that they aren’t using
here is another example
http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/deltec-pinwheel-vs-meshwheel
I would like to know
what is the air/water ratio of their new pump ?
Once deltec was a great skimmer …
Take my opinion or leave it… I think its here to stay. I can see why people say its a ‘fad’. But I also think its one that is here to stay. Look at bubble plates… an example from 10-20 years ago where BK was the only maker. Many makers ‘poo poo-ed’ the idea as an actual improvement, but those who had it knew it was something better. It didnt catch on until a few years ago when other companies like Volcano and ATI came out with their versions of bubble plates and this added competition added some validity to the idea, as well as exposure. Now bubble plates are on how many skimmers?!? Now Deltec has jumped on that ‘band wagon’ as well… I suppose bubble plates are a ‘fad’ though, huh? Same with meshwheels, or heck… weren’t pinwheel/needlewheels seen as a fad at one time too in the early 90’s?
Im sure some day the notion that cones are a ‘fad’ will be given up just like everything else that has come before. And just like every time before there are pioneers, and there are those that like to stick in the mud. You would think that the ’sticks in the mud’ would catch on sooner or later… but I guess not. Its not any specific technology that should be questioned, but different company’s attitudes which should. It seems there are 4 types of companies in this industry with regards to 2 criteria… the first being honesty and a genuine approach, the second being innovation. Some companies are honest and provide great service, and provide innovation… some would argue KZ, ATB, Tunze to be good examples of that type of company. Some companies are honest, but not very innovative… I think Hamilton Lighting is a good example of that. Some companies are not so honest, and not very innovative. I will decline from mentioning any names there, but we can all fill in blanks. Some companies are innovative, but known to be ‘not so honest’ when it comes to specs and claims… some would argue a few companies to be something like that… claiming certain DC pumps are ‘made in the EU’ or ‘low voltage’ when they are really made in China and packing high voltage power cords.
Actually, I want to know one thing… not that I question ReefBuilder’s reporters in any way… I actually enjoy reading your ‘blog’ on a daily basis… but have any of you actually tried a cone skimmer for yourself? If not, that might be something we have to remedy.
I think they are staying. When it comes to aesthetics we have seen a fare share of fads but when it comes to equipment that will be keeping our live stock alive it is a different story especially when you consider that the protein skimmer is an absolute must on any reef tank. How many of us have stayed up night after night reading about skimmer reviews to see what one is the best. The question isn’t so much if it’s a fad as more a question of does this new design produce better results, bare facts, if it does then it’s here to stay for a while until the next innovation. I personally didn’t take one look at a kone and say, ‘OOOH I want that”.
Isn’t the idea behind a cone to reduce back pressure on the pump (so it can work more efficiently) and to provide the most gradual transition for the compression of your foam head? Not sure why that would not be called an advancement. Heck, why don’t we all dump our needle/mesh wheels and go back to using Beckett skimmers just so we can consume more wattage…
There may be HYPE surrounding the cone, but that does not mean it should be discounted as a fad.
Per ATB’s website they appear to offer non-cone skimmers. Have a look:
http://www.atbskimmers.com/products/inventory.php?category=Standard%20Skimmers
There are only a few innovators and many imitators in the skimmer business. AFAIK Klaus at BK originally came up with the cone idea almost a decade ago and deemed it not worthy of further development and instead concentrated on the super marine skimmers with great success. The recent vertex royal-exclusiv cone skimmer is Klaus’s original design produced by request of the north american distributor to keep up with the recent cone “fad”. Is it here to stay? I think so. Is it better than proven designs such as the super marine or even BK mini’s? I doubt it.
Cheers!
-TDF
I would like to see a link to backup this was the actual words release by Deltec?
Fad is not the right word, but instead “marketing gimmick”. That, along with “air draw”. In the current skimmer market, manufacturers seemed to realize that if they promote a cone, and a high air draw, they are passively saying their skimmer is better. I dont know where this correlation came about. In most cone skimmers in action, I am disgusted by the minimal contact between water and the air. Typically 1/2 of the volume is clear, bubble-less water. WTF? Air draw will be better as it gets higher, to a certain point, based on the pump and the skimmer water capacity. SO the number in itself is like saying a “vehicle” has 150 HP. It a 500 pound car, not very impressive. What about on the 350 pound motorcycle. Amazing. Doesnt Eshopps make a cone skimmer? Absurd.
Also, if the magnificent advancemnt of the cone is to reduce turbulence, would a unfirm diamneter tube be even better?
Wow, my typing sucks. In my first post, I menat to say that skimming will get better with higher air draw, to na certain point. And in my analogy, and 5000 pound car. It makes slightly more sense if I type it better.
@TheDogFather, Klaus has claimed many things over the years… including that the cone idea was his. He has never shown any proof though, besides some pictures of cardboard cones on a shelf (nothing near completion besides vapor and claims). He discounted their use, developing the sumermarine line instead (their shape being based on the neck from the Aqua Medic Turboflotor line)… now coming out with the Alpha Cone for Vertex. Well, from the results I have seen, I dont think Klaus did much with the Cone in the first place, or developed it very much, so I have a hard time believing he came up with the idea, and if he did there was next to 0 development put into it (based on what I see as the ‘final product’). So I would have to give that to Korallen Zucht… their design shows that they were the first to really ‘figure it out’. ATB would be the first to use a bubble plate/cone combo really. Although I suppose the Prizm skimmer would be another ‘cone’ of sorts…lol.
As for the purpose of a cone… there are a few reasons: To provide a less turbulent transition to the neck & a cone is also a natural means of reducing horizontal turbulence in the body. It also provides a tall ‘reduction’ area but puts less back pressure on the pump since the waterline in a cone body is about 16-20% lower by volume compared to a cylinder style body. Another benefit of manufacturing and adjustability that almost no maker has exploited yet is that it can also allow you to get away with a 20-40% smaller neck in the collection cup since you can simply continue the cone up higher (and smaller) and it can still act as part of the neck since setting the waterline lower than the neck isnt a problem like with cylinders.
I find it highly unlikely that Deltec hasn’t done any testing on a cone and perhaps decided that the advantages did out way the disadvantages.
Also another thing is in Europe (Germany) cone skimmers are not very common. I wonder why?
There is a saying in the consumer auto-tuning industry, “There’s no replaement for displacement. This basically means, while you can tune the heck out of a 2.0L 4 cylender engine, a stock 3.0L V6 straight out of the factory will still beat the pants off of it. I think the same thing of the cone design–it is the most effecient use of the air, but it won’t produce miracles. Assuming a good output-bodysize ratio, I suspect am 800l/h cone will outperform a traditional design that pulls 800l/h, but a decent traditional skimmer pulling 1000 l/h would outperform the cone, IMO.
And on the Klaus cone thing, I think he did have an early cone, but didn’t know what he had. He has ratios for air/waterflow:base-diameter:neck-diameter, but cones benefit from less air and smaller necks, all other things being equal. I suspect he didn’t see the performance benefit back in 2004 because he was using the old ratios. We are seeing the same thing with the huge necks he is putting on the vertex cones.
Takes more than a cone shape to make a good skimmer.
Sorry my mistake the advantages did not out way the disadvantages.
You go Hahn.
How many of the naysayers have actually tried a cone skimmer? I have had 2, the first was to large for my system. The cone I have now blows the doors off my previous skimmer, a Beckett MR-2 that was modded into a recirc design. The cone also produces the STINKIEST SMELLIEST skimmate I have EVER smelled.
I have watched lots of other skimmers in action as well, from very high dollar designs, to those of the more budget minded on a couple of my “Reef Tours” to local tanks. I have seen a DIY octagon skimmer that holds nearly 100 gallons of water, I have seen the Volcanoes, the BK’s, and the MSX from 160’s to 300’s, Deltecs, ASM’s, ER’s, and ETSS’s. From what I have seen (and smelled) the cone skimmers produce more skimmate for less watts used, so if this is a fad, it is the same type of fad as the “internet” and COMPUTERS!
Just wanted to point my link to the aquarium page where you can browse images of several different tanks, several different skimmers…
Let me try this again….