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We are big fans of voluntary recalls here as it is always a good sign that the company wants to do the right thing. Royal Exclusiv is recalling a few of their pumps. The pumps in question are the Red Dragon II / DC pumps Model 240W (110V, 60Hz) and the Red Dragon II / DC pumps Model 350W (110V, 60Hz) that were sold in the United States and Canada. If you are over in Europe or the United Kingdom you won’t have to worry because those 230v models were not affected. What happened? And what do I do if I own one of these?
“Multiple problems such as defective fuse, major program errors, Low quality material used for shaft, Lack of proper amount and type of epoxy around stator, improper Magnet cover , improper Electrical Cord, unacceptable EMI, excessive wattage draw other than advertised and failing controllers were detected.
To add to the above list the pumps were not user friendly as far as operating program or maintenance disassembly.
Although they were designed by Royal-Exclusiv of Germany the manufacturing of components were outsourced to other firms in Netherland and China. Despite receiving proper working samples most of the production pumps were of poor quality materials used that was not up to Royal-Exclusiv’s standard, however was not detectable upon initial inspection for quality control.
Most problems arose after continuous use in Salt water and approximately within 12 to 18 months. To name a few; Cracked wire cover, rusted magnet, Cracked epoxy due to use of non-saltwater safe epoxy and increased EMI.
This is a voluntary recall; we feel that our customers deserve the best and the quality of these pumps were not up to ours or standards and not what we have been known to provide to our clients.
All the Serial numbers of the pumps sold are recorded and a refund or replacement will be offered to all customers that have purchased these pumps from any of our dealers.
Furthermore please note that we will not be responsible for replacement, refund and or liability for the pumps sold by any other entity since the original manufacturer in Netherland and China have decided to continue manufacturing and marketing the pumps .
Please contact your dealer for an RMA number, all pumps must be shipped back to the vendor they were purchased from and a credit or refund will be issued upon receipt of the recalled items.”
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This thing has 39 Comments
its nice they are standing behind their product, but wouldnt you expect a product that costs so much would be made of superior quality materials and craftsmanship?
This sounds like a case of the manufacturer substituting materials to cut costs without the knowledge or consent of the company that ordered them.
i Don't understand, the pumps in europe besides the cord are the same…
the skimmer pumps are also the same using the same materials. are we to beleive that the bigger pumps were made with inferior materials but the skimmer pumps were somehow made better? OK but what about the fact that the 170w pumps not being recalled run at 240W and have the same unsafe materials.
The pumps made by Honcar (the OEM in China) are cheap… just a few hundred $US or less depending on the model, and how many ordered. There is about a 6x markup on these things to make the consumer THINK they are high end. It says 'made in the EU' on them… which is what the OEM in China was told to stamp on them. Honcar claims they make the entire unit there though.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101...
Jon, you should be more careful with making accusations that are you not completely in the loop on.
Hahnmeisterz,
How careful should I be? How much should I do to prove an 'accusation'? Should I post a link to the actual maker's information on the pumps? Should some of us get our hands on these pumps direct from the maker at said price and play around with them, open them up, try them out, etc? Should I ask the maker where the pumps are made, and why there is a 'made in EU' stamp on them?
These things were done long ago, and anyone here can do the same with the information I have linked to. Nobody needs to be 'in the loop' to investigate it for themselves. You also might want to look at my track record for finding out the truth about Red Dragon pumps and RE products, vs. their track record for trying to BS. Then I might ask you: "why would you doubt me?"
Jon
Didn't you get banned from RC and a whole bunch of other forums for this and comments like these towards other manufacturers!!!What they are doing is honorable, taking the products back voluntary. They made an OEM pump and it had problems, other companies like CV will continue selling them and if you go back for warranty , well we all know that stories.They stopped with these pumps because they are honestly coming out and saying their product was not good, the only BS here is coming from you when you get free products from ATB and coming here or other forums and making such comments.
I have been in the hobby for 25 years before you knew what is a clown fish or maybe were in diapers and it is sad that guys like you are allowed to make comments on forums and newbies with all good intentions believe you and go buy the products that you are pushing thinking you actually know what you are talking about or your opinion is unbiased but really you are making a commercial post..Frankly besides your 12000 posts on RC I am not sure what is your claim to fame beside being a hater.Everyone knows you are just a troll for ATB and that is why you make these comments towards RE.
Copy and posting is easy maintaining a nice reef tank is tough and frankly the pictures from your tank that I have seen were the most ghetto set up ever.Why don't you make a contribution to the hobby in some way rather than bashing a manufacturer that has came up with most of the advances in Skimmer industry. And as far as the 6x mark ups well we don't live in a communist country if I don't like the price I won't buy it , maybe you should do the same and ……………………Do yourself a favor and let it go, frankly you are becoming the laughing stock of the community with this one, people are not stupid they eventually figure out why you make such comments and what is your relation with ATB.
@ James
Seriously, it's about time someone said something. Thank you for doing all of us this grandiose favor and calling out the scumbags for what they are.
For risk of have my post removed for profanity, I'll leave it at that. GJ man.
Wow James did you ever cut the cheese, that was one seriously nice rip you did
.
@ James
Well said, that’s why I like RB better than RC , you can read or blog about what you are interested in and not have to deal with shills and trols it’s not just him there are a group of them on RC all behaving the same way.
I personally have not seen one post from BK guys making negative comments about ATB but many from this group against BK there are tons ! I wonder why I have also heard the free skimmer deal for making negative comments as well from a few
makes you wonder why!!!???
You are right people are not stupid they eventually connect the dots and figure it out
Alright everyone, simmer down, simmer down. Let's try to keep the comments focused less on politics and a few bad apples and more on the technical specs of the products and their application in aquarium use.
Jon H- We all know that you know more than the average guy about sourcing and manufacturing certain aquarium equipment, if only you would use your knowledge for good instead of evil; taking shots at a company that doing a voluntary recall is low and cheap.
If anyone wants a good case in point of how something can be entirely made in China but yet the bulk of the design, engineering and marketing expenses are spent in another country, take a look at the iPod family of products from Apple.
@James,
You might want to take the advice "you should be more careful with making accusations that are you not completely in the loop on."
Im not a troll for ATB (I cant even remember the last time I talked with Victor), and I am specific with my comments, and I dont let one thing cloud another by making generalizations. I make no money from ATB or any other company in this industry, and I think its been over a year since I got anything free from anyone. When I did, it was from many companies though, not just one. Some like you simultaneously claim I am part of some industry and making commercial posts, yet then try to discredit me and claim I am not 'in the loop'. So which is it? You can’t discredit me for both at once. And yes, this does make me a threat to some websites. Let’s not forget that the money for these sites is not from the people, but from the businesses that sponsor. People like me are just fine on sites that are more hobbyist run, but on commercial ones, it’s a conflict of interest.
I have been in the aquarium hobby since about 1985 (Im not so lame as to date specific milestones since it is JUST a hobby to me). I dont see how this is relevant though. Someone who has been in the hobby only a month could find out what I have.
In case you think RE doesnt post bad things about ATB, you might want to look harder…
http://www.meerwasserforum.com/thread.php?threadi...
The ATB guys tried to respond, and so did I, but Klaus simply edited most out and banned my account in response since he is an admin there. Remember I used to be buddies with Klaus at RC… used to swap PM’s and such, until I found out how much BS he was feeding me. That, and witnessing how he tried to screw ATB when they came to the US is why it seems like I have targeted them so much. Its simply the information I have at hand.
And since you bring up raggin’ on companies… whats with you ‘hatin’ on CoralVue? I think Dave is one of the best guys in this industry. He is actually very honest about what he sells, not trying to make it out to be something that is 5x more through false claims.
@Jake,
I tried to warn people a long time ago about these pumps. I think Klaus used his influence to bury it though… so forgive me if there is a little ‘I told you so’ (not a pot shot) coming out now. So why is it that in other industries, consumer reports and buyer awareness are seen as good things, yet here they are seen as evil? I simply seek to inform the consumer of what they are really getting. IF Klaus & Co. had been honest, I wouldn’t be calling them out like this. There is a long list of BS from Klaus that I have uncovered over the last few years.
I have multiple projects going on ‘for good’. I either cant talk about them since the companies have asked me to be quiet in exchange for their cooperation, or I fear I would simply get labeled and discounted a commercial poster. You bring up a good point with the iPod. I actually have used it in other posts regarding ‘country of origin fraud’. See, the iPod is actually made by Foxconn in China, similar to the RD2’s by Honcar. The thing is, the iPod still says ‘Made in China’, but the RD2 doesn’t. When asking Honcar why, they said its because what the client in the EU told them to do.
@ Jon
I shared my experience with CV as a personal experience of buying a Cat one skimmer and not bgeing able to buy parts for it, did you buy a BK!!!!???? Do you have a personal Experience with RE!!!?
As far as your claim of not being a troll for ATB and how you are trying to raise consumer awarness, well I am doing the same I am trying to expose you for who you really are, making commercial posts as a hobbyist.
Again as far as your claims of what you have done for the hobby and maybe the fact that you have been keeping Guppies since 85 , well if I count that I have been in the hobby for over 35 years.
Also I finally did buy a BK and have been more than happy with the product and I needed parts in 2 different occasions and received what I needed promptly.
As far as your politics and how they are a bad company ,well they have treated me well and he is a trendsetter innovating new things since before you knew what a skimmer is. I did ask him about this issue with ATB, since ATB is a complete copy of his products in one way or the other well I guess you have nothing to say you are just defending who is paying you in one form or another, look at your posts on RC who you design skimmers for ATB,…. well if you do design them, then your posts are in fact Commercial posts.
In actual fact if you looked at ATBs site a year ago they sold skimmers with Red dragon then they decided to make a poor copy
To be honest I have no interest in RD II pumps and will never buy one, but it is obvious you are using this as an angle to bash these guys. The fact that they are recalling what they belive is of bad quality says alot about them.
And again my question with all your so called contribution to the hobby and all these great things that you are doing for all these manufacturers, I don't understand when you are such a godsent gift to the hobby you don't even have a system you can brag about?
This seems to be common in this industry many manufacturers make all different type of products, Jack of all trades but it is just marketing they never even had a reef tank before
Again as I said before, don't try to treat us like we are stupid and can't put 2 and 2 together
Best of luck to you and don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Damn man, let someone else leave a comment, sheesh. This article is trying to spin this 'voluntary' recall into a good thing which is completely ridiculous. I'm a newbie and am proud do say that I don't believe the hype. Everywhere I go for info on aquarium products is the same meaningless banter about this or that and its always the same few products being recommended by the same people over and over again so much that its obviously all a front. BTW I find you hilarious James, especially for ripping Jon for apparently trying to entice newbies into buying products that he is "pushing" when all you've been doing the entire time is plugging RE. Hypocritical much? Bottom line is RE sold these really really expensive pumps which turned out to have lots of problems. How is that good at all? Ok yeah we can applaud them for trying to save face but lets face it, these guys burned their customers and this article is trying to make it sound like RE is an honest company. Does anyone else see my BS alarm going off?? because it is going off pretty hard. Remember when ford had that huge recall for all the explorers? nobody was jumping for joy then. Companies do recalls when they think their products are going to get them sued and looking over that list of problems with these pumps I'd say that quite a few could end up with injured or dead aquarists so, yeah, kudos to them for saving their own tails.
@ Sam
I actually agree with you on most post about the nature of any recall, ofcourse they are concerned about themselves than us. However it is still better than having to call a dealer and explain to them why you want to return a pump.
I am not pushing RE in any way, the reason I bought a BK was that I downgraded ,If I still had my 400 g and a fish room I would be using a Beckett not a BK.
It does not make any difference to me if anyone buy a BK ,I am sharing my experinece fair is fair.
Same as you the reason for my post my BS alarm is going off with Jons comments.
Of course they have to say their products is better than others RE or any other company ,but when someone is making commercial post and trying to fool people posing as a hobbyist = BS Alarm.
Anyway, I said my piece and done here, I am happy people are getting their hard earned money back that they paid for a POS chinese or ,…. made pump.
If I had the time I would DIY all my equipment since this is a hobby and I am not feeding my Kids off of my tank, but I don't.
Sorry for the vent guys, Just makes me frustrated to see these Know it all , have done nothing guys.
Don't listen to people that are selling something, make your own decision on what is right for you , your tank and budget. $400 can get you a good skimmer you don't need to spend 2k.
move on please
James, When it comes down to it, I am JUST a hobbyist. There has been much debate on this, and since I have been a detractor of RE, it is one tactic to label me as 'commercial' and then have me removed from posting on sites that are funded by …. Much of the work to make Laguna based skimmer pumps was done before I even knew Anton and Victor. I just like to play with cool toys and make things, and in talking with engineers in the industry, I found out some things.
I would like to respond to your comments in a constructive manner if I may (I truly think that understanding through confrontation here would be a good thing, so lets talk it out):
There are those around me that have BK's and have allowed me to work with them. In the case of Tom Obrecht, I even suggested to him that he try the Supermarine 250's to replace his Volcano, as they are good skimmers. I respect your experiences, but they are just yours and dont apply to anyone else. My findings do apply to alot of people. I think Klaus can be great with service, but as you case at the boards where RE sponsors, you will find he can also be hard to get parts/repairs from as well. Again, this is just other people's opinions and experiences, so it doesn’t apply to you. It is also getting very far from the topic.
Sorry, never had guppies unless as feeders. I bred tanganyikan cichlids before reefing. Not that it matters. I dont get what comparing e-peen's is going to accomplish. Like I said before, perhaps YOU need to be more careful with making accusations. I just moved this last month, so no, right now I dont have a reef set up. I did have one to 'brag about' though…
[IMG]http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101...
[IMG]http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k278/wetworx101...
I used to post about it all the time at RC… the light mover halide w/ T5's flanking it. I built that Starphire tank myself BTW. Got the stand from AGE. I loved that thing. Some corals got colors to them that nobody could match because I dosed ethanol and K.
Other than that, you don’t have to be rude and tell me that the door is hitting me on the way out or that I’m saying people cant put 2 and 2 together. Like I mentioned, if you question my credibility, you can see the link I have added and verify the information for yourself. I know there are people out there like you who like to challenge me, so I was sure to include the information. I don’t know why you would keep saying its BS then.
It is likely that RE is recalling the pumps because if the seals that contain the electronics are exposed, they are a real danger. If you look on RC, the original claim was that these motors are ‘low voltage’, but as you can see from my link, they are anything but. It is very likely that these motors could kill, so it’s no wonder that there is a recall. What I am getting at is that calling this a ‘recall’ is a bit of an understatement. It should be a ‘consumer alert’.
Jon
Links don't work, but actually this was the system of yours with the light rail that I was calling ghetto.
Again I don't see how "your findings" do differ from reinventing the wheel.
As far as Ethonol people have been using this or Zeo for years.
What is interesting is that I do agree with most comments made here about the nature of this recall but coming from you is what the problem is and the direction you are talking with it.
We have actually debated on RC before but again I find that being humble goes a long way rather than trying to say you have came up with all this stuff when you actually have not.
Sorry if I have offended you with my comments, I could care less what you/ ATB or RE is going to make next but it still bothers me to see false advertising and posing hence the vent.
Wow, you sure are trying to make this personal for some reason. The links work if you remove the IMG tag at the end. And no, I dont believe this was the system you called ghetto since I never actually posted it on RC. I doubt many would call it that since it had about $1000 in kraftmaid venicia black gloss euro doors on it. The light mover was completely enclosed. The tank was completely trimmed out, and had about 50-some types of SPS in it. Maybe you have my tank confused with someone else's, or you are just trying to take silly shots at me. You mention that you have been in this hobby for 25 years, yet you act as someone who cant be older than that.
Since when did I say I came up with this stuff? I just mentioned I was using it. You sir, are full of it, and are busy trying to put words in my mouth. You have obviously made this into some personal attack, and still you suggest I am advertising and posing? As what exactly? What am I posing as? What am I advertising exactly here? Anything? Do you actually have something to say that is relevant, or were you just looking for an excuse to vent on me? I think it is you sir who has the problem.
What is your login from RC anyways? If we debated, I would remember.
@ Jon
Actually, I've seen pictures of your tank and I'm pretty sure it was on RC too. Thread about light rails. Ball of Galaxy coral sitting on top of some acrylic rod. Skimmer sitting beside it.
It was ghetto, nice inside, but ghetto.
AS mentioned you can buy these pumps in china,
http://honcar.en.alibaba.com/product/228746952-20...
@Tanner…
Those pics were when the tank was first set up. I left the doors off of the top to show people how to mount a light rail inside of a canopy. So you might reconsider how 'ghetto' it looked. If you took a picture of your tank with all of the equipment showing and doors off, Im sure it would look rather ghetto as well. That tank was a euro brace, starphire, black silicone tank that was built better than the ones I see miracles making. The stand was black powder coated steel, and the canopy was all black gloss frame. The euro-style black gloss doors clamp to the outside of the canopy and the stand, pretty much turning it all into a glossy black ultra-modern monolith.
Funny you should mention the skimmer next to the tank though… I thought I could somehow make it blend in, but no. That skimmer only lasted on that tank a couple months because of that, and that was the reason I started looking around for a skimmer to go under my tank rather than next to it… and that was why I contacted ATB, and the chain of events that led up to their US distribution started.
I found out the truth about these pumps. The recall is a farce.
Lets look at the logic… how many of these pumps do you think have sold in the whole WORLD considering the price? Not many (and some look to change that). So, why would there be a ‘public’ recall on a product like this where the seller most likely has all the buyers on a small list?
The developer of the pump, has left partnership with Klaus (the only pump Klaus still gets is the 170 watter). Klaus is concerned because Bert WILL partner up with someone else… as you can see here…
http://www.meerwasserforum.com/thread.php?threadi...
There is no actual recall. Just another one of Klaus’s smoke & mirror tricks.
Oh, and BTW, I have it on VERY good authority that those Vertex cones are also made 100% in China, just like the motors… yet still said to be made in the EU.
Klaus still gets the 170 watter because he helped pay for the custom volute castings… that is why it is still the exception. However, if Klaus does not pay up on the remaining $30k he owes for those forms, he might not be selling ANY DC pumps very soon.
I love this dirt! Keep it coming guys!
http://www.disturbedreefers.com/viewtopic.php?t=2554
These guys crack me up…lol.
Quite the 360 compared to ‘back when’, eh? Never did hear from that lawyer…
http://www.reefbuilders.com/2009/02/11/red-dragon-pump-controller-detailed-manual/